Old Backsaw Questions

[Wes Bischel]

Hi all,
I picked up this little backsaw (proper term?) at our local Habitat Re-Store. It looked interesting and had quite some heft to it - and for a buck, I thought it would make an interesting little project. I don't know anything about handsaws, so a bit of guidance would be appreciated.
The saw doesn't have a medallion, only plain split nuts. Plus, I cannot see any makers mark on the blade - though one might be under the grime and rust.
I would like to clean it and reset the back and handle, but I don't want to do anything until I know a bit more about it - I don't want to mess up a good saw - if it is. Any ideas? Maybe a shop/home made tool?
Also, the saw has no set to the teeth and has an odd (to me) geometry to the teeth. Is this a normal or recognized geometry? If so, what is it used for? If not, can/should I file them off and start over?

Thanks for any help,

Wes

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Wes,

Are the nuts themselves domed with a slot like the bolt heads? They look to be replacements.

A couple things, there is an old-time tooth pattern similar to that. If that was what was attempted, they botched it. You would do best to file them off and start over regardless of the tooth pattern. This pattern when done properly has raker teeth [the narrow ones] and the larger teeth are filed crosscut, every other one to one side and then the other. In theory it made it into a combination tooth style. In practice it doesn't do either well.

In the picture of the teeth, there appears to be either a crack or a scratch off of one of the larger teeth.

The handle style is called a London Pattern. Though there were a few makers in the US who early on used this style of handle, it was a predominently English style.

There may be a makers mark under the grime of the brass back. Most likely fairly centered, but sometimes found closer to the handle than truly centered. Clean carefull if you want to find it.

I would start out sanding the blade with 400 grit paper and a light amount of mineral spirits, wiping and reapplying the MS a couple times before dry sanding. Use a sanding block with the paper wrapped tightly. That way if there is an etch you may recover it.

To clean the handle, use Go-Jo brand handcleaner like you would get from an auto parts store. Smear it on, let it sit for a minute and wipe. Once done, you can choose to reoil the handle with your choice of oil. I usually use Teak oil as it dries more quickly than BLO.

Especially for $1, you did really good!

Take care, Mike

[Wes Bischel]

Mike,

Thanks a lot for the information and guidance. Sorry, I looked at the pictures I posted and they don't look as clear as they were in Photoshop. Yes, the nuts are domed with slots. They do fit the counter sink areas well, so if they are replacements, they were sized to fit. Should these be split nuts?

The mark on the tooth is a scratch - or actually a non-rusted area. I'll work at cleaning it to see if there is a maker's mark.

The historic information is interesting. The teeth are rough and very dull so the teeth would need to be filed no matter what. So filing them off won't be a great loss. It will be a good learning experience!

Thanks again, I'll post an update if I find anything.

Wes

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Wes,

The bolts and nuts. After about 1880 or so, many/most makers switched to what were termed "improved saw bolts" and they are as you have. Whether they are original or not depends on the age of the saw. But in all likelihood the size was the same anyway. Many are a nominal 9/16", some 1/2" and some on the smaller saws 7/16".

If you discover a maker's name, we can probably date the saw within a period. And if it is early enough, then the bolts may be replacements. When you mentioned they were split nuts, the domed side would have meant they were for sure replacements.

Take care, Mike

[Wes Bischel]

Mike,

The nuts are domed slotted on one side, and just domed on the other (that's just some grime on the right side, not another slot). I was just wondering if they should have been split.

I did find a maker's mark - Beardshaw & Son. It was on the back - which is steel instead of brass. It was nearer to the end of the saw. Could the back have been removed and replaced backwards? There are a number of dents on the sides of the back as if it had been pounded back on.

After your heads-up, I inspected the blade, and did find a few cracks closer to the center of the blade. Also, the blade is a bit wavy. Is there a way for a newbie to flatten it out without destroying it?

Thanks again for your help,
Wes

PS: I came across your work while doing some background research - VERY impressive!

[Mike Wenzloff]

Hi Wes,

Beardshaw & Son [George B. & Jonathon B.] worked in Sheffield from 1825-1895. There was also Beardshaw & Son Ltd. which continued on from 1895 until 1911. The bolts probably places the saw towards the end of the plain & Sons business life. Info from the Schaeffer/McConnell book Hand-saw Makers of Britain.

The saw could have been cut down which would account for the mark, which nearly always is on the left side, to be nearer the end. It would also account for the dents, though saws can sometimes be treated rough enough. It's had over a 100 year life...

With splits in the steel the blade probably should be replaced unless there is enough room to file out the splits in the process of jointing the teeth off. One issue if it needs to go too deep is if there will still be enough usable depth below the handle when finished to still have a useful saw.

The bit of waviness is often correctable by readjusting the back itself. Often the toe of the back will get pushed down forcing the top of the blade held captive by the back to press downward and the toothline gets "compressed" causing the toothline to get wavy.

Thank you for the kind words!

Take care, Mike

[Wiktor Kuc]

Wes,

If you want to find out more about Beardshow and his company go to my magazine:

http://www.wkfinetools.com/hUK/Beardshaw/index.asp

There is an acurate histotical brief written by one of the best - Simon Barley. There is also some other info on this saw maker.

It would be also nice to see some more pictures of thes saw and the stamp on the back after cleanning.

Thanks,

[Wes Bischel]

Holy cow, quite a bit of history! Gee, over 100 - I should look so good. Not as fancy as your saw though Wiktor. Thanks for the information guys. I'm not sure if I can do the saw justice, but I'm willing to try.

The cracks are not very big, but I'll need to measure what's left after they would be filed out.

Wiktor, I'll try to get some decent pictures of the mark. I haven't been too successful so far.

Thanks again for your help,
Wes