Woodmaster - and making money selling moldings, etc

[Aaron Heck]

Hello, first, I want to admit that this is cross-posted a few places, just incase someone doesn't visit all of the forums I do. I'm hoping to get a wider audiance.

Anyway, I've been interested in the Woodmaster planer/molder/sander for a while now. Just sorta thought it was a neat tool and always heard pretty good things about it. I had pretty much ignored the "you can make $1000's" from the marketing literature. I also hadn't pulled the trigger because I didn't know if a separate 15' planer, 18-36 sander and ShopFox/W&H molder would be better, although more expensive on the pocket book and on the space.

But.....just not really all that happy at my current job. Was browsing around www.entrepreneur.com and saw that among the top 25 home based jobs was something to do with picture framing and the like. This kinda got me thinking about the Woodmaster again and I think the wife was actually pretty accepting of it.

Now for the guts of this post......I know this will sound off the wall. Sorta like, please help me make money. But if you have ever done anything like this, especialy produced your own molding and sold it to different shops, I'd love to talk to you if you're willing. And, likewise, if you're tried and just found that it was a bumm idea, I'd love to hear what happened, too. If you feel more comfortable discussing over PM, that would be great.

Thanks!
Aaron

[Barry Bruner]

I`ve got the 18" Woodmaster with the molding set up ,the only thing I`ve ever used is the plainer. The plainer has more viberation than I expected and I do not like dealing with them is the reason I haven`t bought the molding blades. Two days after I got it they had a truck load sale a hundred miles from where I live, I called and told them I wasn`t very happy and they said they would give me a $100.00 off, I had to call three times to get it. If I were doing it over I would get the SHOP FOX moilder and buy a plainer. I sure wasn`t impressed, I bought American made til then and now I watch for service. Good luck. I hope someone will give you some info that isn`t mad at them.Barry Bruner

[Dennis Peacock]

Aaron,

Alot of this has to do with location, location, location.

I know a guy that started a small business with making molding and custom moldings for local businesses and individuals. He had a very tough start as expenses were high and payback from slim. He stuck with it and after about 2 years, he was adding on another 6,000 sq ft to his "shop" and adding more machines. He began buying lumber by the tractor-trailer load. Last I talked with him? He was grossing almost $1.5M per year and expected to double that in the next 4 years, but he worked 6 to 7 days a week, sun up to way past sun down. Ya gotta weigh it all out. No work? No pay.

Think it over very well. If you get some work for pay? You could burn up the woodmaster in short order. Many of this guys machines costs him well over $10K per machine while some exceed $60K. A couple of his machines, he had to have TWO of as he couldn't afford to have a molding machine down since that was what made him the money. Think it over carefully, especially if you don't have liquid cash to float you and your expenses for at least 2 years. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying to think it over and talk around to get a better idea of what you could be facing.

Just some quick thoughts on the topic.

[Dave Mcintire]

Aaron, I did a little of this type of thing in Pennsylvania years ago. The small molders do make nice moldings, probably a lot has to do with the slow feed rate. If you stick to custom moldings for small quantities you may be alright with a small machine like that. To really get into production your going to need a 4 or 5 head high speed machine very soon (read; big bucks). Also everyone wants moldings in long lengths - like 12 feet to 16 feet for houses, a suppose shorter if just for picture frames. This means you need a good relation ship with someone who can supply good quality clear lumber thats kiln dried and usually defect free. Also you need two people to efficiently run a molder - one to feed and one to unload at the other end.

SOmething like this translates a hobby into a job real fast.

That said there are a lot of positives - being your own boss, oportunity for expansion, big bucks down stream, etc.

Just a few thoughts
Dave

[Jim Becker]

Dennis hit on an important point...you need to do the business case for your area relative to market opportunity. Good planning and due-diligence is critical to any business venture's chance of success.

[Rick Haigh]

I have owned the 18" woodmaster for several years and it is a nice tool. I have made several thousand feed of molding and I am happy with the results for the most part. The molding is not perfect and does require some sanding.

I have found that making molding is really hard work for a single person. This is magnified if you have to pre mill the wood at all. By pre mill I mean rip to width or plane to a specific thickness. This can double or triple the effort to make the molding. That being said it is very rewarding to produce something like molding that you cannot get anywhere else. You will need to become very efficient to make any money with the 18" woodmaster.

[Dave Falkenstein]

In the area where I live there is a molding manufacturing shop that has been here for years. If I were comtemplating getting into the custom molding business I would go down to that shop and talk to the owners to get a feel for the market and the potential for a custom shop. Another idea would be to go to work for a molding shop for a while to fully understand the processes and the business. Clearly understanding what you are getting into is a key to success.

[Dell Littlefield]

I once went into business for myself and was fairly successful. My recommendation is to be prepared to support the business for at least 2 years. In other words, don't expect the business to support you for that period. Also, check with the Small Business Administration. They have some fine educational programs to help you avoid administrative pitfalls such as taxes, OSHA, etc. At one time they had a program using retired successful businessmen for mentors. Although I never used it, I heard a lot of good things about it. Good luck.

[Bob Dodge]

Hi Aaron,

Life, is a long walk. Heading down a new path, who knows where it can lead? A little advance information takes some of the mystery away of "what's down the road". With a "well formulated plan", you can make your own road.

If that journey is purely a business decision, I'd start by reasearching the potential market. Identify that market. Get to know your future customers and their purchasing habits. Who do you want to target? Contractors? Stores? Small wood-shops? Picture-framers? Furniture and cabinet-makers? Home renovators? "Finish and trim" carpenters? Who are their current suppliers? This will not only give you an idea of what type of molding you'll be producing, but also the volume of production required, and who you're competing against. Also, identify what unique abilty you bring to their table. Will you be competing on 'speed of delivery"? Cost? Quality of product? Replication of hard-to-find moldings? Unique profiles? Your customers, will define your business. Their needs have to be paramount in your plan. Who is currently satisfying their needs, and can you do better? You'll always have something working in your favour. You just want to identify and build on those strengths.

Let's say for example that you want to start out small. You're simply looking to keep your job (for the moment), and would be happy if the machine pays for itself over time. Identify what that cost/time-frame will be, cost of cutters, energy consumption, cost of materials, storage and handling, delivery, advertizing. Look at assosciated costs. Will you be delivering "finished" moldings? "Unfinished" moldings? "Paintable" moldings? MDF moldings? Unfinished hard-wood or soft-wood moldings". If so, what's involved from a material processing and handling point-of-view for each of those products? Will you need to buy a spray finishing system? Will you need specialized contour sanding? Can you realistically afford to "go there"? All of those considerations will help identify your own personal strengths and weaknesses. If you can only afford to start-out small, concentrate on a specific type of molding, and do it well. Establish a reputation,and build on that. Don't even consider trying to serve a market you can't handle well, go to your strengths. Later, as you grow, perhaps you will be able to compete in that new sector of the market.

In life, there will always be those that see a glass as half-full, or half-empty.My instinct is to wish you "good luck", but, luck will have nothing to do with it. Your ambition, drive, and determination, will form that "luck". I wish you success.

Bob

[Ryan Hovis]

Found this thread researching the Woodmaster, I want one bad. How do the molding knives handle black walnut? I have 2 massive trees that need to come down, no one makes walnut molding locally because they sell their sawdust for animal bedding and don't want it contaminated. Could possibly make some money. I need to trim out 1600 square feet worth of remodeling and could probably come pretty close to breaking even making my own molding as opposed to paying $2+/ft for basic S4S locally.

[Jim Andrew]

I'd hate to rely on one piece of equipment to make a living. You would be competing against guys with moulders and sawmills. I found that building houses gives you a chance to do some woodwork you can't do working for someone else. Only thing is there is so much work all at once you really have to keep your focus. I used to build my own cabinets, and that helped me stay into real woodworking. I also framed, sided, trimmed, painted, built decks, formed up driveways, did the cleanup and everything else nobody wanted to do. But I was proud to do my own cabinets, and had time to do so while the drywallers were workiing. I think the custom molding would depend on whether there is anyone in the area with a moulder filling the demand. If the homebuilders are just using the cheapest trim, might be a builder who would like to upgrade his trim.

[Gary Breckenridge]

All good comments above. Before you quit your day job I'd give this a try on a Saturday morning basis. Get one account or customer and see how it goes. As for the machinery; I've seen the ads too. I have yet to see a multi-tool that really does every job well, Leatherman excluded. In a hobby shop you can take the time to set up a tool to do part of a job and then set it up again to do the next part of the job. And so on. In a production shop every 15 second block of time is something to be accounted for with production and not set up. Good luck and keep us informed.

[Charlie Plesums]

Sometimes I have seen these discussions based on a Woodmaster. Other times I have seen very similar discussions about a Williams & Hussey moulding cutter. I am not expert on either, so can't confirm that they do the same job or are in the same league, but have you considered the W&H?

Personally I am a big believer in trying something like this as a part time evening and weekend job, and seeing if it does grow (or if you would still like it to grow)... a machine or two can be sold off pretty easily if it doesn't work out - much easier than reestablishing your day job.

[Ed Labadie]

There is a shop near me that has a 25" Woodmaster. They make hardwood flooring and paneling. Most of their lumber is also logged, milled and dried right there also.

The Woodmaster and a shaper were the first machines they bought. The shaper was used for the edge profiles, the Woodmaster was used for everything else..... planing, rip sawing and moulding. Eventually as their business grew, it became to time consuming to use the Woodmaster and shaper combo. With single cutterhead machines to many passes were required to make a finished product and a dedicated four head moulder was purchased.
The Woodmaster still sees daily use as a planer and a gang rip saw.

IMHO the Woodmaster would be a good first machine to start out with for a reasonable investment. If the business takes off then other, more efficient machines can be added. If things don't work out, you still have a nice machine for your personal use.

Ed

[James Suzda]

I see by the posts to your question there hasn’t been too many Woodmaster owners who have replied. I’ve got a 712 and have used the planer, gang saw, and molding, but not the drum sander. Plus I’ve tried to get into the molding business.
Now I think that 90% of your success/failure rate will depend on your location. There has to be a market for your product otherwise you are just barking at the moon. If you think you are going to compete against the BORGs to supply trim to the “Saturday Crowd” you are going to lose, unless you sell “quality”. (Just take a look at some of the junk that follows the people out of those stores. )
If homeowners and contractors are doing a lot of remodeling of period homes in your area then you probably have a market. You can take a hunk of the period trim, get a custom cutter knife made and make some quick cash. This same thing holds true with the picture frame business. If you have a lot of artists and photographers in the area looking for custom frames you are in luck. But, if you think you are going to compete against the big box stores for frames I don’t think you will succeed. Also, don’t forget you will have to stock a lot of different style knives that are needed for making frames you will have a lot of cash tied up into knives that you might only use once.
My advice is don’t quit your day job and work at the molding/frame business until you are putting in 16-18 hour days then make the decision on which path to take. But, the Woodmaster is a good machine if you don’t try to “push” it beyond its capabilities. If you take the time to let it do its job you can get a quality product with a minimal investment. Switching between operations only takes about 15 minutes unless it comes to setting the planer knives. That takes a bit longer!