Make a skew chisel?

[Vince Welch]

Terry,

Thanks for the confirmation. I thought I must be looking at the wrong kind of steel. I'm thinking about just buying this one, as it's the right size:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.a...30,43164,43173

The 1 1/4" one, that is.

Anyone know about Henry Taylor tools?

But I'll keep thinking about it. For now, I'll keep practicing with my oval skew.


--Dave

Hi Dave,
The inexpensive steel really does not hold an edge long especially when it comes to using a skew. Henry Taylor tools are great!!! Top Notch! Also check out Doug Thompson! He has Skews and either make the handle or or check out the Aluninum handles on that guy who offers the great sandpaper's website for $25.00! (I can't say his name) Then you are set!
Thanks, Vince

[David Walser]

... HSS is really overkill in my opinion. It's main advantage is that it stays hard at several hundred degrees, where a normal tool steel would be tempered soft. If you need that in wood turning you've already burnt up your stuff.

And from what cutting and carving tools I've make and used I think w1 or any other simple high carbon steel creates a finer cutting tool.

Not long ago, virtually all the best turning tools were made out of high carbon tool steel. When I first started turning in 2003, on turning forums such as this one, it was common to debate whether HSS was better than high carbon steel. The argument was that the edge on HSS tools might last longer, but it couldn't be gotten as sharp. Many old timers kept their favorite high carbon tool ready for making the the final finishing cut -- relegating their HSS tools to roughing out work.

However, I don't recall seeing this debate for several years now. Why? HSS has proved to be simply better by any measure than high carbon steel for turning tools. Not only does a HSS edge last longer (3x - 5x longer), you can get it just as sharp as its high carbon counterpart. (Since HSS is more abrasion resistant than high carbon steel, it took turners a while to learn how to sharpen HSS tools properly. Under magnification, it can be seen that properly sharpened HSS tools and high carbon tools are equally sharp.)

In addition, the bane of a turner is the need to frequently resharpen. So most of us try to get that task done as quickly as possible so we can get back to turning. Enter the high speed grinder. When I started woodworking, I was taught to never take a fine bench chisel to the high speed grinder (unless the edge was so damaged it needed significant reshaping). Instead, sharpening a chisel involved spending 5 - 10 minutes working the chisel on a succession of bench stones until it could be used to shave the hairs off your arm. For turners, the high-speed grinder is the sharpening tool of choice. For many turners, sharpening begins and ends with the high-speed grinder. It's almost impossible to ruin a HSS tool on a high-speed dry grinder. That's not the case with high carbon tools -- it takes a light touch and frequent dips into the water bucket to avoid drawing the temper from a high carbon tool.

So, compared to high carbon tools, HSS wins on two of the three counts -- the edge lasts longer, they can be sharpened on a high-speed grinder without burning the edge and ruining the tool, and they're the equal of high carbon tools in sharpness.

Today, the debate (and it's not much of a debate) is whether the newer steels are worth the extra cost -- the edges made with these steels last 2x - 10x longer than HSS and, properly sharpened, are just as sharp as HSS tools. The only real question (in my mind) is whether or not you can actually reap the benefit of the exotic steels greater edge holding durability. Most of us know that the edge starts to dull as soon as it meets the wood. After a few minutes of turning, the tool might still be cutting "fine", but it's not as sharp as it was a moment or two before. As a consequence, most of us touch up our tools just before taking that proverbial final cut. So, let's suppose before taking that final cut your HSS tool was sharp enough to have kept cutting "okay" for another 5 minutes or so, but an exotic steel tool would have kept cutting okay for another 15 minutes. You only save a trip to the sharpener if you wouldn't have "touched up" the edge at the grinder before making the final cut with the exotic steel tool but you would have with the HSS tool. Like I said, it's not much of a debate. Most seem to believe that the exotic steel tools have edges that last longer -- which means more time turning and less time at the grinder. To my mind, the only legitimate argument is that you might be able to afford three HSS tools for the price of two of the exotic steel tools. Would you rather have three tools or two longer lasting tools (not better in terms of cutting, but in terms of durability of the edge)? I think each turner has to answer that question for himself or herself.

Here's what I've learned from this history. Can you do quality work with high carbon steel tools? Of course you can. These were the standard for decades. You'll just spend more time sharpening than you otherwise would. You won't find any major tool house making high carbon steel turning tools today. The reason is the turning community has rejected high carbon steel in favor of HSS and the exotic steels. If you want to make your own tools, high carbon steel is a perfectly valid option if you don't have access to the more durable steels or don't have the ability to work these steels (which requires much higher temperatures).

[Leo Van Der Loo]

I'm feeling poor and having just watched Alan Lacer's skew chisel videos, I'm thinking, hey, maybe I could make one and save some money. His cost $159 at Craft Supplies USA. Ouch.

I'm thinking, buy some tool steel, grind the skew end, grind the tang freehand, make a handle, and you're done. (Wait, you have to somehow attach the handle. Details...)

But I look at www.McMaster.com and there is a huge variety of tool steel. I thought the HSS steel in most of the tools was M2, but that's stuffs expensive in the raw, so I wouldn't be saving any money, and it doesn't come in very many sizes. What would I buy if I was going to make a tool? Any place cheaper?


Just FYI, Alan Lacer recommends a skew that is at least 1 1/4" wide and 1/4-5/16" thick.

Kudos to the first person to talk me out of this idea.

--Dave

Here's some good steel 6 inches long, 1 inch wide, and 3/8 thick, steel cutting cobalt steel, price about $23.--, you add a handle and sharpen it, and you are all set, good luck.

You can get thinner if you want, though not wider I think.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...MPXNO=19503218

Oh I would not bother making one, I would just buy one

[Roger Chandler]

Files are a terrible idea! Some do it, but it is dangerous!

Why not take an old scraper, and just grind the skew end? It would be about half the cost of the Lacer one you spoke of, and you can get a scraper at WC for about $60.00.

[Neil Strong]

Files are a terrible idea!

+1, unless you are highly experienced with metallurgy and with accurate tempering, in which case you wouldn't be needing to gather info about that here.

+1 to re-purposing a HSS scraper if you have a spare one or can buy one at a reasonable price. Secondhand is a good option... good steel stays good!

HTs are good gear and that looks like a good price.

A Thompson 1&1/4" would outlast you... tough steel!

Here in Australia the P&N 1&1/4" is another v good tool.

If you can't come at any of the above because you are a bit poor just for now there will probably be someone who can lend you one until you save your pennies or have a birthday...

.

[Harlan Coverdale]

A Thompson 1&1/4" would outlast you... tough steel!

Came here to say exactly this. I've been very happy with mine, and it was quite a bit less expensive than the Lacer skew.

[Alan Zenreich]

I like my Thompson 1.25" skew.

Keep in mind, when looking for a handle for it... none of the commercial handles will fit the "out of the box" skew. Two edges of the tang need to be ground down a bit so it will fit into a 5/8" round hole. Not a big deal at all, just don't be surprised when you get the skew.

After the quick grinding tweak, mine fits into a Oneway Thread-lok adapter at the end of a nice padauk handle I turned. Nice little setup.

[Bob Espy]

I have the 1 1/4" Thompson skew. It's GREAT. Well worth the $90.00 and does a fantastic job. Make your own handle and you're all set.

[Dennis Ford]

For scraping tools, M2 steel is a minimum and as you have found it is very expensive. For homemade tools, I use O1 steel. It is a carbon steel and will not hold an edge as long as M2 but the difference is not a big problem for a skew. O1 steel is not very expensive and is easy to work with until it is hardened. It will take a very keen edge.

[Jim King]

No toy stores here for turners so I made mine out of a large wood rasp.

[Trevor Walsh]

Bernie, I didn't mean grind and use a file as is, there certainly isn't enough temper in it to cope with the stresses of turning. I imagined that annealing and heat treating all over again was understood, after all it's mentioned above my threads in relation to using file steel.

[Trevor Walsh]

David,
I think the HSS v. simple steel debate is cyclical, we're set in our sides. What my point was for Dave is, using re-purposed simple steel or inexpensive new simple steels is a no brainer. Considering his objective of a cheap (cost) skew. Not getting 5xs the life out of his turning tools, ironic because almost half of the replies to this thread endorse expensive alternatives, and hardly address his desire to MAKE the skew himself.

Hundreds of dollars in HSS turning tools is great if you're producing and selling at shows etc. The time saved in less sharpenings may offset their initial cost. If you are beginning, or doing this as a hobby, the cost of HSS doesn't do much for you, and is prohibitively expensive.

Now it might be argued that sharpening less often results in more practice turning, something someone new would like to do. However turning now, with less expensive tools is preferable to waiting for the money to buy expensive tools, no?

[Thom Sturgill]

Packard Tools Skew is hard to beat http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merc...ools-pkrd-resc
I believe they are made by the same company that makes Lacer's.

[Jake Helmboldt]

Well David, should you decide to buy and not fabricate then I would look at the following:

Our friend from down under mentioned P&N as a good brand and others have said the same - they can be bought from Lee Valley and their 1 1/8 skew is ~$64.

Thompson is a little more but probably worth the extra. Both require making your own handle, but that is an easy project, fun and good practice.

I recently bought a Crown 1 1/4" of ebay for a song. I buy and sell a little on ebay and a lot of stuff seems to be going cheaply these days.

The Crown can be bought at Highland for ~$70. The steel isn't as good as the Thompson (nor probably the P&N), but the price is pretty good and I have been pleased with mine. I put a radiused edge on it and the extra mass is really nice. I'm sold on a big skew for some jobs.

The Packard looks identical to the Crown and is basically the same price. They are known for having good quality at reasonable prices. I don't know where the Packard is made, but the others are all non-Chinese, which is simply my personal preference.

[David E Keller]

Another thought... You might consider eBay for old skews or tools steel blanks. The skew is one of those tools that a lot of people abandon before really getting the hang of it, so I'd expect to see some for sale on the Bay.