Router bit - Shaper Cutter question??

[Kevin Howell]

I am new to the field of Woodworking and just gathered tools and equipment. Could someone please tell me if I could use routers bits on a delta shaper 1HP I purchased? The shaper cutters are expensive and the router bits are more less expensive. Thanks

[martyphee]

You'd be better off using router bits with a router. The shaper spindle turns too slow most router bits. You have to slow your feed rate way down to get a good cut. For something like a panel raiser the shaper would be fine.

You might want to look at something like the CMT insert tooling head. It has an aluminum head with HSS cutters. The have a ton of different profiles.

[Brian Ross]

You can use router bits in your shaper if it has a collet that will accept router bits. The downside is that generally speaking the smaller the router bit the faster it must turn and that could be 23,000 rpm. Your shaper will probably not go much higher than 10,000 rpm. Larger bits and raised panel bits, no problem.

Brian

[Kevin Howell]

Thanks for the help and input!

My first project is Raised Panel doors for kitchen cabinets. I was looking at the Freud and CMT Raised Panel Door set. Which are better for Raised Panels doors? What bits should I buy to use in the shaper?

Also, the CMT insert tooling head, is that the CMT Series 692 Shaper Cutterhead 3-1/8" Cutting Diameter ?? Can I use the CMT insert to cut Raised Panels??

thanks again

[martyphee]

Either of those sets will do a good job.

Yes, that was the one I was talking about, but it might be too large for your shaper. 1hp might not be enough power. I don't believe they have an insert for raised panels.

[glenn bradley]

I'll catch it from some of the Creekers for this but, can you return the shaper? I'm a hobbiest and to get more bang for my buck I went with the router table approach. The bits being so reasonable means I can have a lot of profiles for not much dough ($20 for a drawer lock router bit, $50 for the shaper bit). Don't get me wrong. I'd love a shaper but with the amount of work I do I couldn't justify the cost of the cutters.

Ok gang . . . let me have it.

[David Rose]

I bought a router and added lots of bits before I realized what a full router setup was going to cost. I had already built a cabinet with table. By that time, it seemed more economical to me to stay with the router table. Starting over, I think I would look at all the possible profiles that I could imagine cutting, and see how they balanced out. Being able to use most router bits hand held (in routers) and all in the table, makes me think the router might have an edge.

David

I'll catch it from some of the Creekers for this but, can you return the shaper? I'm a hobbiest and to get more bang for my buck I went with the router table approach. The bits being so reasonable means I can have a lot of profiles for not much dough ($20 for a drawer lock router bit, $50 for the shaper bit). Don't get me wrong. I'd love a shaper but with the amount of work I do I couldn't justify the cost of the cutters.

Ok gang . . . let me have it.

[Jim Dailey]

First "Hi & Welcome"

I have had a shapers for more than 25 years. 1st a small 1 1/2hp, and for the last 20+ years a Delta Unishaper with a powerfeeder. The Delta has 1/2" spindle, 3/4" & 1 " that I use with adapters for 1 1/4" id cutters. It also came with collet inserts for router bits. I thought the collet inserts where "nice to have" but never felt I would use them..... I was wrong. I want to make it clear that regardless what you hear about speed at the cutter as long as you have a 2 speed machine with the belt on the high setting "you will get great results using a router bit in a shaper". This is not theory for me I have successfully done this for years.

If I need a profile that I don't have with my collection of shaper cutters, and it requires a number of lin. ft., I will always run this using a router bit on the Unishaper with a the powerfeeder. If it's a small project I will run this on my router table that has a single speed PC 3 1/4hp in a Jessum Mast-R-Lift and a Incra Linear Twin Fence. Why single speed router? I don't need to slow the router down as I am only swinging small diameter bits 'cause my large profile cutters are shaper cutters. Incidentally I have a pair of Incra Ultra lite fence positioners mounted on my shaper because of their re-peteable accuracy. I will use two small fences when I swing a shaper cutter or one fence attached to both positioners when I use a router bit.

The recommendation on the CMT insert system is a good recommendation. I have one next to me as I write this. "Yes it will do 'E' - all of the above" including raised panel door with it's 200 profiles of HSS cutters. I'm not sure your 1hp Delta shaper can adapt a 1 1/4" id cutter head, but if it can Mark Sommerfeld is closing out CMT 1 1/4"id shaper insert heads with 13 profile inserts for $129.90 plus shipping. http://www.sommerfeldtools.com I bought a set because it was a great price ($200 plus anywhere else). A CMT head is available from other supplies for 3/4" spindles from other suppliers.

The one thing I would encourage you to look seriously is a powerfeeder. These will not only greatly improve the quality/consistancy of your work but are the best safety measure your can put between your invaluable fingers & a 5 1/2" shaper cutter. I would also suggest the addition of a veneer height gauge (Lee Valley #88N87.06 page 23 for $62.50 or Grizzly G9618 page 593 for $39.95)

Hope this helps, jim

[Steve Dewey]

... Incidentally I have a pair of Incra Ultra lite fence positioners mounted on my shaper because of their re-peteable accuracy. I will use two small fences when I swing a shaper cutter or one fence attached to both positioners when I use a router bit.

Jim - I'd love to see some pix on your shaper fence set up. I have the 1.5HP grizz shaper & the fence is miserable, takes me forever to set up a cut. I get great results, but only after spending the set up time...

[martyphee]

I've just made my fences out of plywood. Mines's a 5hp PM 26. I have one for raised panels and one for other profiles.

[Jim Dailey]

Hi Steve,

I don't know how to post or know of a site to "host" the pictures, but I will send them to you or anyone else that wants to post them. Just send me a PM with your email address & I'll send them to you.

jim

[lou sansone]

I agree with jim.. use router bits all the time in my 3 hp shaper without a problem.

lou

[Kevin Howell]

Thanks Guys! This information is great help.

Gotta tell you, I purchased a old Delta/Rockwell workshop manufacturer 1970's in excellent condition from co-worker who father passed on. She sold it to me for $600 , Shaper, bandsaw, mositer, radius saw, jointer, cabinet tablesaw. Now I am trying to purchase the necessary accessories like bits and shaper cutters to make kitchen cabinet doors.

After reading your comments I am going ahead and purchase the CMT cutterhead, Grizzly feeder and Raised panel router bits. I am still not sure about the Collect for my shaper???? (it is an older one) I emailed Delta Tools to see if there was one for my shaper, I don't have manuals.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my thread - this really helped me out!

[Kevin Howell]

Thanks - Jim couldn't find on site but I emailed Martin on the CMT's

First "Hi & Welcome"

I have had a shapers for more than 25 years. 1st a small 1 1/2hp, and for the last 20+ years a Delta Unishaper with a powerfeeder. The Delta has 1/2" spindle, 3/4" & 1 " that I use with adapters for 1 1/4" id cutters. It also came with collet inserts for router bits. I thought the collet inserts where "nice to have" but never felt I would use them..... I was wrong. I want to make it clear that regardless what you hear about speed at the cutter as long as you have a 2 speed machine with the belt on the high setting "you will get great results using a router bit in a shaper". This is not theory for me I have successfully done this for years.

If I need a profile that I don't have with my collection of shaper cutters, and it requires a number of lin. ft., I will always run this using a router bit on the Unishaper with a the powerfeeder. If it's a small project I will run this on my router table that has a single speed PC 3 1/4hp in a Jessum Mast-R-Lift and a Incra Linear Twin Fence. Why single speed router? I don't need to slow the router down as I am only swinging small diameter bits 'cause my large profile cutters are shaper cutters. Incidentally I have a pair of Incra Ultra lite fence positioners mounted on my shaper because of their re-peteable accuracy. I will use two small fences when I swing a shaper cutter or one fence attached to both positioners when I use a router bit.

The recommendation on the CMT insert system is a good recommendation. I have one next to me as I write this. "Yes it will do 'E' - all of the above" including raised panel door with it's 200 profiles of HSS cutters. I'm not sure your 1hp Delta shaper can adapt a 1 1/4" id cutter head, but if it can Mark Sommerfeld is closing out CMT 1 1/4"id shaper insert heads with 13 profile inserts for $129.90 plus shipping. http://www.sommerfeldtools.com I bought a set because it was a great price ($200 plus anywhere else). A CMT head is available from other supplies for 3/4" spindles from other suppliers.

The one thing I would encourage you to look seriously is a powerfeeder. These will not only greatly improve the quality/consistancy of your work but are the best safety measure your can put between your invaluable fingers & a 5 1/2" shaper cutter. I would also suggest the addition of a veneer height gauge (Lee Valley #88N87.06 page 23 for $62.50 or Grizzly G9618 page 593 for $39.95)

Hope this helps, jim

[Jim Dailey]

Hi Kevin,

Once you are on the Sommerfeld site, just do a search for "shaper" and you should find the the CMT head for $129.95

Steve Dewey started another thread and posted a picture of my modified Unishaper where I added a pair of Incra Ultra Lite fence positioners. In this picture it shows a router bit in my shaper.

Hope this helps, jim