Only 4" port on Cabinet saw, Jointer ect....???????

[Joe Jensen]

Even though I'm not an expert I'll toss in my 2 cents worth. As a community we woodworkers seem have concluded that more is better with DC airflow. Its hard to argue that more isn't better, but I'm not sure more is needed for most tools. I just looked at a Powermatic 25" double drum sander and if only has two 4" ports. I'd be surprised if they under sized the inputs on a drum sander. I suspect that if I ran the right size duct to each, I'd have great dust collection. Think about the table saw. When cutting, the wood is forming a pretty good seal against the top. The blade is cutting wood, and sawdust is pulled by the tooth gullets down under the saw top. Some of this sawdust stays in the gullets and is thrown above the saw top, but most falls below the top into the cabinet. The dust collection port mainly pulls the dust from the bottom of the cabinet. More airflow will pull more dust out of the gullets, but I don't think 2 or 3 times the airflow will matter much. My new SawStop has a nice hood down in the cabinet that has a 4" flex duct to a 4" port. I have that connected to a 5" duct for 10 feet and then 4 feet of 7" duct. I get very very little dust on top of the saw. Maybe little more than the blade creates when the teeth are coming back up through the board at the back of the board.

Also, make sure you maintain enough velocity in the duct. If you have a 6" or large duct connected to a 4" port, you may very well end up with dust pooling in the duct. Also, you need enough air input to the cabinet. If you were to seal the cabinet to the top, and seal all the other cracks, leaving only the gap between the blade and the blade insert, you would end up with very little airflow...joe

[martyphee]

It is my real name. Try putting a space in there and it's spelled Phee. If some admin wants to correct it go ahead.

[martyphee]

Really not much to show. On the inside there is a shelf between the base that flares out and the sides of the cabinet. I lined that with plywood and sealed around the edges and then cut a 6" hole at the base of that new "floor". I used a 6" ventilation starter(?) from McMaster. It has a foam gasket with adhesive and holes for screws. Could used something better, but the metal is thicker than your standard 30g vent stuff at the borg.

For a better design take a look at a newer 66. They did something similar with metal though. Made a tray that angles down from the sides and directs everything to the port in the back, but still only 4".

[Luciano Burtini]

Dust doesn't move in a vacuum. Likewise, air moving too slowly (say, in a 6 or 8 inch pipe) will drop it's contents just as the water in a wide, deep stream does. I've seen 8" piped half closed with dust - nature shows that a smaller tube would have been fine in that part of the system.

I'd stick with 4" AND make sure that all of the air that COULD fit through the pipe is getting into the cabinet in the first place.

Mitch

Precisely my point as well.... The 4" is more than adequte for moving dust and air and at an acceptable speed to ensure that it actually clears out the saw. Making the port bigger is not necessarily going to be more effecient and unless you are using a humungous DC, it is likely that your dust removal ability will suffer, not improve. Seems to me like a lot of the discussion is purely hypothetical (solutions looking for problems??) - kind of like the more horsepower arguments tend to be....

[Jim O'Dell]

I agree that the manufacturers need to step into the the new century. I like the idea of the dust ports being on a removable door, not welded into the cabinet. That way, they could offer different doors as accessories so we could choose the right size for our needs. That way no modifications would have to be made to the machine. And for those that don't have the high CFM cyclones, the 4" would still be the best bet for them. Some of the machines have the ducts on a removable door, Delta TS maybe?? Seems like the Griz jointer DC ports are on doors or hatches that appear to be removeable. Can someone that has one of these confirm that? The other thing I've mentioned before is that the port needs to be on the right side of the TS also. Most left tilts are on the left side, or in the back. Right tilts are on the right side or the back. I prefer the left tilt, but the only obvious place for an overhead duct to get to a TS is at the right side of the saw where it is not in the way of a cut. Having the port exit on the right side would also reduce the number of 90 degree turns by 1 or 2 depending on left side or rear port.
Don't seal your cabinets up too much. Others are right, there has to be air flowing in as well as out. You need the same area of air getting in as you have area on the port hook up.
My guess is that the optimum setup would be a 5" port on the saw, and a 2" overhead guard running from one 6" line. Those would need to be different if you had a larger (7 or 8') line.
Anyway, just my ramblings on a Friday night. Jim

[Jim O'Dell]

Luciano, a 4" port may be all that is needed. If that is so, then I would think any vertical run to an overhead pipe needs to be the same size. Don't do a drop with 6" then reduce at the machine. I know that is contrary to popular belief right now, and I fuly admit that I'm not an expert here and could be wrong. But it seems that if you only have 4" pipe area coming in and it changes to 6" or larger to go over and up, you going to lose velocity, and could find some problems in keeping the heavier particles suspended. UNLESS!! you also have another opening at the point of transition that you can open up to keep the airflow high enough for the larger pipe. I wanted to run 6" to my table saw. It's a contractor saw, lots of openings. I modified the factory accessory hood from a 2.5 inlet to 6". My 6" vertical run also has a 6/6/4 wye with the 4" going over for a future o/h guard for the blade. (That will have to reduce to 2 or 3" for the guard.) I'm lucky that I was able to get a cyclone that should produce enough CFM that I can handle alll of this. Not everyone has that luxury. Jim.

[Terry Hatfield]

I enlarged the ports on my cabinet saw and jointer to 6" and I personally would recommend it. It is easily acomplished with 6" HVAC register boots. I cut the hole in the cleanout door of my 1023 larger with a jig saw and mounted the boot on the inside. The combination of the 6" port in the cabinet and 4" to the overhead is quite effective.

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I made a new plate that fit the original mounting holes on the jointer and mounted a boot to that.

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I also ran 6" to my planer......you get the point. I've enlarged the ports in every tool I can. Amazing difference moving from the 4" ports to 6" ports really. Jim has it right...the more flow you can get the better off you are. As long as you have enough collector to power the 6" ports, I would upgrade every tool you have.

Terry

[Ben Rafael]

I agree with Jim Becker.
Having a powerful cyclone connected to a machine with a 4" port is not allowing the cyclone to draw as much as as possible.
It's kind of like drinking water through a coffee stirrer vs. a normal straw.

I will not be upgrading my TS until someone makes one with a 6" port.
On other equipment this will probably never happen, on the TS it may.

[Ben Rafael]

A 4" port will not collect all the fine dust, it does not allow sufficient CFM to do it. You can get most of the easily visible dust, but that's it.

[Jim Becker]

I will not be upgrading my TS until someone makes one with a 6" port.

Unfortunately, my feeling is that this is less likely to happpen that you might want. Upgrade your saw when you need to and just do what is necsesary to put a larger port/hood on it.

[Ben Rafael]

My next upgrade is to my BS, and that's a few years away. The only way I'd buy a better TS is if some deal comes along, like a PM66 for $400. Otherwise I'm fine waiting.
The manufacturers have been getting a lot of complaints about the 4" port, they'll come around eventually.
It's really pretty stupid when you think about it. Make a 6" port and anybody who needs 4" can buy a $2 reducer. Making a 4" into a 6" in a pain.
I doubt it costs more for them to make the port 6", it's only a bigger hole. Less metal, should be cheaper.

[J.R. Rutter]

I've used table saws with both a 4" and 6" dust port. Either one should keep the cabinet base from filling up with dust, which is their primary duty. With the TS, any dust that you get on top is coming from the back of the cut. No cabinet port is going to capture that. You would be better off splitting you TS branch and running a top-side collection point in a blade guard. Now you can get most of the stuff coming off the blade as well as the stuff flying off below the table.

For the jointer, and most other machines, the more air the better . . .

[Travis Porter]

Strange, my DJ-20 came with a 5" port, not a 4". Personally, i enlarged the ones that were simple enough to do. I did run 6" pipe to every machine and reduced it from there to minimize different sizes of pipe and to make it easier when and if I change the inlet sizes.

[John Piwaron]

No.


Doesn't work the same way for electricity though.
Bigger wire won't make the machines go faster.

But it'll reduce voltage drop and allowing that the breaker is sized right, give the motor everything it wants.

[John Piwaron]

Sounds like the DJ-20 was shipped in a couple of configurations.

Mine has a chute that dumps the chips out the end through a huge square opening.