sawstop FUD

[Andrew Shaber]

I found this article (referenced on woodcentral) and thought it was interesting. It doesn't indicate anything bad about the saws but it is interesting the inventor is trying to force his patent into law. It seems like a good product but I'm less inclined to be interested in the saw because of what he is trying to do.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...100901172.html

[Steve Rowe]

I found this article (referenced on woodcentral) and thought it was interesting. It doesn't indicate anything bad about the saws but it is interesting the inventor is trying to force his patent into law. It seems like a good product but I'm less inclined to be interested in the saw because of what he is trying to do.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...100901172.html

I am not so sure he is doing anything different than any of us would be doing had we developed the technology. It either has merit or it does not. If you research the archives of the CPSC analysis for the petition, a compelling case seems to be made. Whether the sawstop is the only technology or method to improve TS safety is another question. It seems this technology is a lot less expensive than mandating European sliders on every saw. Regardless, I believe the manufacturers have no-one but themselves to blame for the rulemaking. If they made effective guards and splitters that were actually usable, there probably would be little need for the Sawstop technology.

I wonder if folks have the same feeling about the developers of anti-lock brakes, traction control systems, vehicle stability control systems, air bags, 3rd brakelights, seat belts, and the list could go on forever. I for one am glad to have the opportunity to purchase safer products.
Steve

[Rob Bodenschatz]

This thread won't make it to midnight.

[Mike Heidrick]

It seems like a good product but I'm less inclined to be interested in the saw because of what he is trying to do.

Then why did you post about it?

[Jim Becker]

Folks...this is a preemptive "PLAY NICE" request. This subject has been discussed many, many, many times here and elsewhere and there are folks passionate about it. Don't let your own passion make you say things counter to good community interaction. Thank you in advance for your cooperation and understanding.

Jim
SMC Moderator

[Mike Henderson]

Folks...this is a preemptive "PLAY NICE" request. This subject has been discussed many, many, many times here and elsewhere and there are folks passionate about it. Don't let your own passion make you say things counter to good community interaction. Thank you in advance for your cooperation and understanding.

Jim
SMC Moderator

I agree. This subject has been beat to death too many times already. For those who haven't read the many threads, search the archives.

Mike

[Anthony Anderson]

PLEEEEEAAAASSSSEEEE, Search the Archives. Let this one go already. Pull this thread before it starts. Then don't buy the saw, if you don't like what he is doing. It's your fingers. Sincerely, Regards, Bill

[Frank Chaffee]

Hmmm…

Staying in the realm of results, rather than straying into the political…

Reminds me of the seatbelt we see in every new automobile these days; an example nearly every one of us relates to daily. Did the automakers push hard to implement life saving seatbelts in cars? …And why have we laws to require use of seatbelts?

To go back further in history, once upon a time rail cars were coupled manually, rather than with the efficient system we all benefit from now. Many switchyard workers lost hands, arms, or lives every year coupling railcars. When a better, safer, more efficient design was introduced, railroad companies and the manly men in the switchyard alike resisted loudly.

Exactly what new safety measures have tablesaw manufacturers come up with since the introduction of the Sawstop technology? Surely, some monies must be available for R&D.

And hiring foxes to guard the henhouse; well we get what we pay for.

Frank

[lou sansone]

I find this topic somewhat interesting from a macro level, but at the micro level it has been beat to death.

lou

[Robert Mickley]

Hmmm…

Staying in the realm of results, rather than straying into the political…

Reminds me of the seatbelt we see in every new automobile these days; an example nearly every one of us relates to daily. Did the automakers push hard to implement life saving seatbelts in cars? …And why have we laws to require use of seatbelts?
Frank

Is that relative? This is an honest quaestion, since I want to know who exactly developed the seat belts? An independant who licensed it to the automakers, or the auto industry itself?

I'm only asking since if the auto industry developed it the cost was probably lower than if an outside firm did it then licensed it to them.

Big differance, on one hand you have the government saying you have to come up with a solution. On the other you someone wanting the government to say your going to use this solution.

I think the sawstop idea is great. I just don't like the guys tactics. If its a great as he claims the new sawstop saws will make it on their own merit. Some of the guys here have bought them and so far I haven't heard any complaints. And thats great. Because when he starts taking significant money away from the big toolmakers they will either develop their own saw or buy his.

I still want to see a video of what happens when you slam the hot dog down on the blade simulating a loss of balance.

[Greg Funk]

I wonder if folks have the same feeling about the developers of anti-lock brakes, traction control systems, vehicle stability control systems, air bags, 3rd brakelights, seat belts, and the list could go on forever. I for one am glad to have the opportunity to purchase safer products.
Steve

I personally prefer the approach taken by the developers of at least the first 4 of the above 6 examples. These technologies were developed by component manufacturers like Bosch and sold to car makers who thought they could gain a competitive advantage by incorporating them. Initially they come out in high end vehicles and eventually make it into the mass market. While I can't say for certain I don't think Bosch spends large amounts of money lobbying the government for mandatory ABS, stability control etc.

I think the Saw Stop is good technology but I don't like the idea of manufacturers being forced to include it. I would prefer Gass concentrated on building his business and making it a 'no-brainer' for manufacturers to license his technolgoy. As mentioned in the article 8% seems pretty steep for just the license rights.

Greg

[Frank Chaffee]

Is that relative? This is an honest quaestion, since I want to know who exactly developed the seat belts? An independant who licensed it to the automakers, or the auto industry itself?

I'm only asking since if the auto industry developed it the cost was probably lower than if an outside firm did it then licensed it to them.

Hi Robert,
I won’t comment on where I think a demand for safety equipment should come from, because frankly, I don’t know. To answer your question…

Near as I can tell, the first U.S. Patent of a seatbelt for use in automobiles was granted in 1885 to Edward J. Claghorn.

In the 1930’s, some US physicians equipped their own cars with seatbelts and encouraged automobile manufacturers to make them standard equipment.

In 1962 US auto companies began to provide seat belt anchors in cars, and in 1968 it was compulsory to do so.

Frank

[Joseph O'Leary]

I was in Redmond Machinery in Atlanta today and got a good look at many of the different saws that I read about here at the creek, Delta, General, Powermatic, ShopFox, Jet, Steel City and yes, Sawstop. Forget the safety stuff, I think the goverment should mandate the new quality standard set by Sawstop!! I don't want to insult anyones equipment, heck I have a reconditioned Delta contractors saw (dialed in well, two cast iron wings). I can tell you this though, side by side the difference in smoothness (best all encompassing word I could think of) hits you right in the face. I can't afford one now, and I hope they make a contractors version, but I will have one in my shop before my boys are old enough to be taught how to use a table saw. Government mandate or not.

[Wayne Watling]

I don't really agree that the seatbelt/airbag analogy is in anyway like the SS situation as it applies to a single hobbiest woodworker. When you drive a car you are responsible for not only yourself but your passengers safety, when you use your TS in your own workshop you put only yourself at risk and the decision about safety devices should be left up to you the owner operator.
I'll mention that its different for schools and business where the administrator and owners have an obligation to make everything as safe as possible for people under their supervision.

Best Regards

[Ted Baca]

As a recent purchaser of the SS I can only say, I made a tool decision. I was able to make a political decision in November, and I was much more disappointed with that than I was with the SawStop purchase. We as Americans buy so much from countries that are not our allies and spend no time debating it because of the savings of our mighty dollar. SawStop is an American company that is using a Tiawanese manufacture as is Jet, Powermatic, Delta etc. We don't debate those politics. It is a great idea whose time has come. And safety features aside, it is a great saw. If I had invented it I would capitalize on it as much as I could. The inventor spent a lot of money developing this technology, I am sure he would like as maximum return on his investment, as any of us would. I could say more but I really need to get back to making some sawdust.