Cherry and "redness"

[Michael Adelong]

I'm building my first ever all cherry project, the nesting table set from one of this summer's Woodsmith magazine. They did theirs in mahogany, I chose cherry.

I had 2 boards, one 6/4, and one 8/4 that appeared to be the same color when I bought them. After jointing, planing, and ripping, I found that the 2 boards have very different colors. One has a reddish pink kind of color all the way through, and the other is much more towards the "white" end of the spectrum with very little pink or red tinting. My question is, will the lighter boards turn red over time? David Marks always "suntans" his cherry projects (after hitting them with potassium dichromate). The weather here in Maryland isn't cooperating right now, or I would try it. Will winter sunshine on the east coast be strong enough to change the color, or do I need "summer sun"? Does sunlight make the wood red, or just darken the current color (making the lighter boards "browner")?

I've tried searching the forums, but "cherry" and "color" came up with way too many non related posts. I just need an idea on how to procede. I can use the reddish legs for the smallest and largest tables, but the middle table would have the lighter colored wood legs. I think I have enough of the 8/4 (lighter) to make another set of legs for the small and large tables, but then I'd be left with 8 - 1 1/2" square lengths of milled stock to find something to do with... (like that's a huge problem - not). Oh, I have already glues up the tops. They were made from 2 other boards. Their color is right in between the 2 different leg colors, so they're not much help in making the decision.

Thanks for the help.

Merry Christmas!
Michael

[Terry Bigelow]

Cherry darkens over time naturally, in fact I have found this to be true without direct sunlight either. I use cherry quite often and when using solid pieces (as opposed to ply) you must surface all sides in order to have a uniform color. When you leave boards sit then plane one side, the planed side will have that pink color as opposed to the more mellow deeper red color. Someone at our shop (whose name I won't mention ) left a coffee mug on top of a finished face frame for a display and the piece was out of the way for a month or so and you guessed it...RUINED! It had a nice pink circle with the "suntanned" color surrounding it. Now it's a shop cabinet for routers and thier jigs!

[Mike Henderson]

It's very hard to answer your question without seeing the boards, but my experience is that different boards age (color) differently, especially if there's a lot of difference in their original color.

On thing you might try is to use a lye solution on the boards to age them. Just pick up a can of lye at the hardward store - it's used as a drain cleaner - just make sure you get pure lye and not drain cleaner which has other stuff in it. Make up a weak solution, maybe a tablespoon in 16 oz of water an then brush that on to the boards. You'll see the red color start to appear in just a few minutes.

If the color winds up different, that's probably what they will look like after they age.

If you don't want to use lye on your finished project, use the bottom of the boards where the color won't show.

Lye has been used to color (or age) cherry for hundreds of years, but I find that the color imparted is just a bit different than the real aging color. I don't know how to explain it properly, but it just looks different to me.

Mike

[Rob Will]

[quote=Michael Adelong]David Marks always "suntans" his cherry projects (after hitting them with potassium dichromate).

This is an interesting topic. Can somebody tell more about Potassium Dichromate (what is it, where to get it, how does it work)?

How does Potassium Dichromate compare to lye?

Any conflicts between these products and various wood finishes?

I am particuarly interested in sprayed lacquer.
How about water based finishes?

Rob

[James Duxbury]

I am finding that any wood has come from the same tree or at least the same woods. Wood from PA is much different than wood grown in NC. The red dirt changes everything. Walnut is chocolate color when grown in the south.

If you want a table top that matches get a thick piece, joint the sides, and book match it.

Lacquer works OK on cherry but the oils make a more quality finish. Toung oil or Danish oil gets beautiful over time with an additional coat now and then.

[Mike Henderson]

One thing I forgot to include in my posting earlier about lye is that you need to neuralize it after it does it's job. You can do this with a weak solution of vinegar - the lye is a base and the vinegar is an acid (acid+base=salt+water)

Wash the wood with plain water after the vinegar. Apply any finish you want over it.

Mike

[Troy White]

I would say the light board is sapwood if this is the case it will not darken the same. Troy

[Bill Lewis]

I'm with Troy, it sounds like the light wood is sapwood, and it will not darken. I am currently building a small cherry table, and I went through a lot of stock to get all heartwood, and no sapwood.
The darkening of heartwood can be accelerated by exposing it to sunlight, and this can make it easier to cull the sapwood out so you don't have any surprises later.

[Chris Barton]

I make lots of cherry pieces as well and I don't worry about sap wood discoloration. I use transtint dye to "stain" the pieces I make then just a dribble in the shellac when I finish the piece. Color matched up well but, the natural chatoyance is not effected, if anything it's enhanced. Lots cheaper than throwing away sap wood...

[Don Bullock]

I make lots of cherry pieces as well and I don't worry about sap wood discoloration. I use transtint dye to "stain" the pieces I make then just a dribble in the shellac when I finish the piece. Color matched up well but, the natural chatoyance is not effected, if anything it's enhanced. Lots cheaper than throwing away sap wood...

Do you use a particular brand and/or color of dye?

[Chris Barton]

For cherry I usually use Transtint Honey Amber if you like a natural cherry color.

[Don Bullock]

Thank you. That's what I was looking for. I got some cherry shorts the other day that had some sap wood in them. They are going to be used for trophy bases and I was wondering what I could use for a more uniform color.

[Mike Henderson]

Chris probably has a lot more experience than me, but my experience with staining wood to accommodate color changes with time has not been good. This is true when trying to match existing darkened wood, such as replacing a kitchen cabinet of maple that has yellowed, or of trying to stain sapwood which will not darken later.

When first applied, the color match is great, but six months later, when the underlying wood starts to change color, the stained wood shows up as too dark (like the kitchen example above).

When staining sapwood to match heartwood, unless the stain is applied very dark, the heartwood continues to darken under the stain and the sapwood eventually shows up lighter.

This is just my experience. I may have not learned how to do the staining properly yet.

Mike

[Michael Adelong]

Thanks for the help. guys. I'm pretty sure that I'm not working with sapwood. I'm no expert, but I carefully picked through the pile at Hearne Hardwoods (PA) to avoid the sapwood. That was the light, yellow/green colored stuff that I saw on the edges of some of the boards, wasn't it?

The original 8/4 board came from right near the center of tree. The growth rings would have been centered on the next board below this one in the flitch. It's uniform in color all the way through. After letting it sit overnight, I think I can see a reddish tint in it now. Does air play a part in the color change? The other board was 6/4, and clearly came from a different log.

I'm 99% sure that I'm not working with sapwood. If my dang camera hadn't died, I'd post a pic (it got killed during the merriment and/or debauchery taking place at the Rennaissance Faire - might have been slammed by a stray breast for all I know ).

Michael

[Chris Barton]

Chris probably has a lot more experience than me, but my experience with staining wood to accommodate color changes with time has not been good. This is true when trying to match existing darkened wood, such as replacing a kitchen cabinet of maple that has yellowed, or of trying to stain sapwood which will not darken later.

When first applied, the color match is great, but six months later, when the underlying wood starts to change color, the stained wood shows up as too dark (like the kitchen example above).

When staining sapwood to match heartwood, unless the stain is applied very dark, the heartwood continues to darken under the stain and the sapwood eventually shows up lighter.

This is just my experience. I may have not learned how to do the staining properly yet.

Mike

I don't know that I have any more experience than you Mike, maybe I have just had good luck!