Help me get this finish...

[peter slamp]

I've got an oak tabletop for my 1st wood furniture project. How can I get that beautiful gloss finish. I bought some Danish Oil and some polyurethane. I also have some ebony stain. What I'm looking for is an ebony version of this ^^^^ tabletop. Is that within my abilities? Any advise extremely appreciated. This table is a X-mas present for my wife so I'd like to finish by Monday if possible! Thanks!

[Brian Hale]

Yes, you can get that high gloss finish but not by Monday.

For oak, you'll need to fill the grain, stain/dye the wood, let dry for a few days and then build up several layers of finish, sanding well between coats. Allow the finish to cure for a week or so, then level it and polish to a high gloss with your choice of polishing options.

If you decide to go this route there is plenty of knowledge available here so ask away.

Brian

[Charlie Plesums]

If your choices are polyurethane and danish oil, no hope for being done with the multiple coats by Christmas, because of drying time. I might try to meet that schedule with lacquer, especially Target USL water base (so it isn't still smelling of lacquer solvent on Monday), but if you don't have spray experience and the supplies, experience, and equipment to rub the finish out, ... sorry. And if you want to stain it, you will have even more drying time

[Bob Reda]

Peter,

I don't know when you applied the finish to your table, but it will take upwards of a month to allow it to get hard enough to start rubbing out the finish to a gloss like shine. You start with your sandpapers with 600 grit and upwards, then move to your compounds, like rottenstone. and as a finsih I use Finnesse II. Its an auto body rub out that will give it the gloss look.

Bob

[Dennis Peacock]

Peter,

Poly won't dry fast enough for you and it really can't be rubbed out very well either for that "glass" look. You need to go with a high build gloss lacquer and spray it on. I'm working on a black lacquer finish now and so far, I've got 8 coats down and have 4 coats of high build clear gloss to lay down, let that cure for 2 weeks, then start the rub out process.

You can speed the dry time of poly by thinning with naptha, but then you're down to about 8 hours of dry time, then sand between coats. With shellac and lacquer, you don't have to sand between each coat as each new "wet" coat will melt part of the previous coat and make it all one coat. If you rub out a finish like poly and you rub through one layer, you can end up with "witness lines" in the finish....exposing the layer under the one you just rubbed through.

Once you get used to using lacquer and shellac, polyurethane will be a brief memory in your finishing arsenal.

[glenn bradley]

No silk purse from a sows ear here. High gloss finishes take time (as in waiting). FWW has a finish supplement and one of the techniques is the high gloss look. As others have stated; filler (oak is very porous) and many layers of your chosen 'film' with very fine sanding/pumice/rotten stone in between before the final rubout. If immediate results are required I would alter your expectations. You'll be happier with a good 'regular' finish within your schedule -or- a good gloss finish later. Good luck

[peter slamp]

Is spraying the only application option with lacquer and shellac? Also, is it impossible to get that look with poly? I'll just tell the wife that it will take a while to 'finish' her present.

[Charlie Plesums]

The only material I would use to get that kind of finish is lacquer. There are some who say you can brush lacquer (like women who put on lacquer finger nail polish), but for all practical purposes, you need to spray. When I spray, it dries so fast that the overspray is dry before it hits the ground.

In my experience, Shellac is fairly soft, and doesn't protect the surface very well (vulnerable to alcohol and water) - it has some important roles, but not as the finish on a tabletop.

Varnish can be brushed on, but I haven't built that skill.

Polyurethane is very hard - even brittle. Great for floors (won't scratch) but that same strength keeps it from being rubbed out to a fine finish.

[Dennis Peacock]

Peter,

Lacquer really should be sprayed. It dries to the touch in about 10 minutes and ready to recoat in under 1 hour. Like Charlie said, when I spray it, the overspray is dry when it hits the floor.

Another option if you don't have a spray setup, is to buy it in the spray cans. This stuff will go on nicely but will take SEVERAL coats because it is so highly thinned so it can be spray from an aerosol can. It's more expensive this way that buying it in a can and spraying it, but it's another avenue to get what you need done.

Even with Lacquer, it needs to cure for about 2 weeks before rubbing out. It needs to be "hard" and mostly cured before rubbed out.

[Mike Armstrong]

It's certainly within in your ability to get a great finish like that, but . . . considering this is for your wife and that it's your first project, you really need to slow down and proceed carefully to avoid a major disappointment for all. We all know a great finish can make mediocre work look outstanding, and a crappy finish will make exquisite work look . . . like crap. You're going to be looking at this table for a long time, so get it right. You can get a lot of good advice here, but it's from people that already have some experience with the products and process they're recommending to you.

My recommendations are:

1. FIRST, get "Understanding Finishing" by Bob Flexner and/or "Complete Illustrated Guide to Finishing" by Jeff Jewitt before you buy the finishing products. I have Bob's book - an invaluable resource -and attended his weekend seminar. I've heard that Jeff's book is equally good. There are so many things to consider before you make a decision on how you want to proceed. Get some solid background knowledge before you start. It's an investment that will pay off with all your future projects as well.

2. Don't rely on labels, product directions, a store clerk's advice or just a magazine article without either talking to someone who's done the job the way you've going to do it or you've done it on a practice piece.

Just take it slow and you can get some fabulous results.

Mike

[David Rose]

Charlie,

Lacquer and shellac are about the same hardness according to Flexner, Dresdner, and Jewitt. That is why they both rub out well. Varnish is more tough than hard, again according to them. That is why it is scratch resistant and doesn't rub out as well.

I did buy "soft" shellac one time. It came in a can and probably was older than it was dated. Freshly mixed stuff is vastly under rated, IMO. I've never had a problem with what I mixed... yet.

While I agree with you about questioning shellac on a hard used "eating" type table, I think it would be great in this application. Edited: actually, the user did not state the use of his table, did he? So I may be way off base. end edit. Of course, it is not very resistant to water and hardly at all to alcohol. So it would kind of depend on how the table was used.

I have padded on shellac on almost everything I've built in the way of "house" furniture. And we certainly don't have a pristine house. But I do watch for condensing glasses sitting on pieces. With shellac applied in the last 6 years (the limit of my experience), water can sit on it for a couple of hours or maybe more with no noticable effect. I wouldn't try that with "spirits"!

This probably doesn't help the OP at all with his time constraints, as padding takes some time to learn (for some of us ). It pads on sooo fast though, if the user could do it, it would fit his timing with steady work.

David

The only material I would use to get that kind of finish is lacquer. There are some who say you can brush lacquer (like women who put on lacquer finger nail polish), but for all practical purposes, you need to spray. When I spray, it dries so fast that the overspray is dry before it hits the ground.

In my experience, Shellac is fairly soft, and doesn't protect the surface very well (vulnerable to alcohol and water) - it has some important roles, but not as the finish on a tabletop.

Varnish can be brushed on, but I haven't built that skill.

Polyurethane is very hard - even brittle. Great for floors (won't scratch) but that same strength keeps it from being rubbed out to a fine finish.

[peter slamp]

Thanks so much for the great advise everyone! Funny, I ordered the finish book by Jewitt a week ago from Amazon. Glad that evryone says that it is a great resource! Can't wait to get it. I am completely self taught. I've bought about 15 books in the last 2 months and done nothing but read them and scour internet forums. This one has been my favorite which is why I began posting here. You have a wonderful community here. Thanks again for all your imparted wisdom. This hobby has been a lifelong ambition for me. I just hope I don't bore people with my insatiable desire to learn more! Peter

[Jim Becker]

Polyurethane is very hard - even brittle.

Actually, it's softer as part of its abrasion resistance. And that same abrasion resistance make it...resistant...to bringing out a mirror-like shine since rubbing techniques all depend upon abrasives for finer and finer scratch patterns as you work up to the intended gloss.

[Don Bullock]

Peter,
You're not the only one that is in the same position. I stopped doing wodworking over twenty years ago due to a lack of space, work schedule, other hobbies, etc. I'm amazed at what is available today that wasn't around back in the early '70s. As you stated, the people here have been fantastic and very open to my questions as well. The knowledge base of this forum is unmatched on any others I've checked out. I'm sure as we learn more from reading and actual woodwork, we'll both be asking a lot more questions. From one newcomer to another, welcome.

[Matt P]

Instead of having to fill the grain on oak, can't you just put um-teen coats of Behlen's Rock Hard Varnish on? It may take 5+, but isn't it kind of fool-proof?