Kitchen Design Ideas....

[Dennis Peacock]

All kidding aside...planning is what makes a kitchen work. I love to cook...and have cooked in many places. When you get the space right...it makes cooking more fun.

Keep asking questions...as you know...there's lots of answers.

(Sitting at the bar watching DrLOML make biscuits right now...)

Good Morning Glenn,

Understood about planning. That's why we're on a 2 to 3 year planning stage. We know we'll change our minds at least 100 times between now and when I make my first cut in the real wood. So mind as well take our time and see how "right" we can get it.

Biscuits hugh? Now I'm getting hungry.


Hey Nancy,
What's a baking center?

[Jim Becker]

All kidding aside...planning is what makes a kitchen work. I love to cook...and have cooked in many places. When you get the space right...it makes cooking more fun.

Apsa-tively true...just as there is a "work triangle" in the shop, there is one in the kitchen. It's even more interesting if you regularly have or intend to have more than one person working in the kitchen.

And if it hasn't been said already, take a good look at what you can do to open it up to the great room/family room nearby.

[Dennis Peacock]

Yea, we've been thinking about that Jim B......Just not sure if or how we want to go about that just yet.

[John Shuk]

Dennis,
My brother made solid oak counter tops ripped and glued back together in 1987. They are still holding up just fine. He is an amateur chef and 2 of his kids are culinary students so alot goes on in that kitchen. There has been no trouble around the sink either.
Good luck with the kitchen redux.
John

[Jim Becker]

"White oak" if it's oak... Or something tropical like teak or ipe. (It's only money, Dennis...)

Seriously, many high-end kitchen designers are actually using multiple surface types for different areas of the kitchen. Stone or metal for baking needs, wood for cutting areas and other materials around the sink and cook surfaces.

[Steve Schulz]

Dennis,
I'm in the final throes of a remodel of my (small) kitchen, with a similar U-shaped layout like yours. Ours had a peninsula extending out one of the legs of the "U" that separates the kitchen from the dining room. Originally a big bank of upper cabinets hung from a soffit extending over the peninsula. They seemed to like to do that in the 60s and 70s, the extra storage was nice but it was a pain to duck down and converse with guests seated at the opposite side of the peninsula. We tore out the soffit and hanging cabinets which really opened it up but we gave up quite a bit of storage. Anyway, heres' my thoughts FWIW:

1. I built the cabinet boxes frameless euro-style, plywood with edge banding and full overlay doors. This gives you some extra storage in the bases since drawers and pullouts don't need to clear the face frames. Not as much of a issue on the uppers since they're all shelves but it does give more open access.

2. I made use of dead space in both corners by putting a sliding corner unit from Lee Valley in one corner base, and an kidney cutout lazy susan in the other. The sliding corner unit is the coolest thing in my kitchen. Just make sure the thing will fit, you have to design and build a special cabinet to install it, there's minimum sizes for height, depth, and opening size.

3. I built an L-shaped upper corner unit with bifold doors which gives a lot of access.

4. Standard depth of upper cabinets is 12" but when you add a recessed 1/4" back panel, plus a 3/4" hanging cleat your interior depth is only 11". I went 13" sides to give a full 12" interior depth and I don't notice the extra overhang over the countertops.

5. The Kreg K3 pocket screw jig rocks.

6. Except for the corner units all storage in the bases is in drawers. I had debated doing hinged doors with pullouts inside and I'm really glad my wife talked me out of it. I went 75 lb full extension slides for everything but wish I had done the 100 lb slides for the big pots & pan drawers. The 75s are probably enough but they seem a little bouncy at full extension loaded up with allclad and cast iron frypans.

7. We went solid surface (basically a Silestone knockoff). mucho $$$ but I rationalized it by the money I saved doing the work myself. It lets us do an undermount sink which the wife absolutely loves.. I'd be a little leery about all wood c-tops around the sink, elsewhere they're probably ok. The other thing is that as woodworkers we sometimes can get carried away and want to make everything out of wood which can get a little monotonous visually. Contrasts between wood, metal, stone, tile etc add visual appeal. You might save $ by doing a big butcher block section in the main prep area usually between sink and stovetop.

8. Kitchen lighting is like clamps, it's theoretically possible to have too many but it's tough. I've got a mix of hanging fixtures over the peninsula, recessed cans in the ceiling, and low voltage under the upper cabs. I wish I'd put in a few more 3- way switches, I didn't think it would be a problem but I found it's a little annoying to have to walk across the room to shut off the undercab lights.

9. This project got to be a bit of a slog, took far longer than I thought it would. I had planned to build the doors myself but ended up ordering them. No regrets since I was doing it on nights and weekends and I was getting burned out.

Anyway, hope this helps. When I get time I can probably upload some photos if you have questions. Good luck with your project

Steve (Newbie here)

[Jim Becker]

4. Standard depth of upper cabinets is 12" but when you add a recessed 1/4" back panel, plus a 3/4" hanging cleat your interior depth is only 11". I went 13" sides to give a full 12" interior depth and I don't notice the extra overhang over the countertops.

This one is really good...I wish I would have increased the depth of my uppers just a little...especially with inset doors. There is no "fudge factor" from the front of the shelf to the back of the doors for slightly oversized items.

[Dennis Peacock]

Wow Steve!!!!! Thanks!!!

Now....ah-hem.....Welcome to SMC. Glad to see you join the flowing waters about The Creek. Enjoy your stay and as a gentle reminder....We LOVE PICS!!!!

All great info here....This collection of info needs to be kept going so that anyone planning or thinking about doing this can read, learn, and choose from such great info.

Thanks to all of you for your pointers and tips added so far.

I have plans on making the upper cabs 15" deep. The LOML has stuff she puts in the current cabs and the door just doesn't close all the way.

[Vince Kerchenski]

My $0.02 FWIW. If you do an internet search on butcherblock, you'll be suprised to learn that they are more bacteria and mold resistant than any other cutting board/countertop material. Thats why they are so popular in high end restaurants/deli's etc, etc. The end grain is more forgiving on your knife edge as well. There may be more upkeep than with solid surface, or other countertops but its the look you are going for. I agree with another post here in that multiple surfaces are the trend today. Give a look to concrete as well, it is a very good material for counters

[Ron Brese]

Dennis my wife and I just went thru the coutertop decision in the kitchen of our new house and had considered edge up maple block counters, however we were apprehensive about the area around the sink and gave some thought to some other surfaces in that area. The thing that I could not get my head wrapped around was how to provide a good transition without creating a problem spot for cleaning purposes. We ultimately went with a tile counter made from a flat sheen 12" square tile that has a look very similiar to soapstone with a black grout line. It is well sealed and cleans up great. I will however be making an island with the edge up maple block as the top. From a design standpoint given the size of your kitchen I think multiple type surfaces may break up the room visually and actually make the room seem smaller, whereas one surface all around would carry your eye. The flooring material should also have a bearing on what countertop materials your use. We have wide plank white pine floors finished with 4 coats of waterlox so we thought more light colored wood on the counters would be redundant.

[Dan Mages]

Here are my thoughts on the kitchen. It is not the greatest representation, but Visio is not the best for doing layouts. I made quick assumptions about sizes, so please bare with me.

1. Put the fridge next to the sink in the corner. This way you dont have to haul the veggies or whatever across the kitchen to be cleaned, peeled, whatever. I reccommend a 24" deep wall cabinet above the fridge. It is much easier to get into than a 12" deep.

2. leave the back wall just cabinets and countertop space. This will give you TONS of prep space. If you or wifey are bakers, a lower bakers area would be nice, but is not necesssary. An wall cabinet with out a door for your cookbooks is something to consider.

3. The left wall will be for cooking. The cooktop can be centered or biased to the right. The wall oven should be all the way on the left.




3 cents... clink clink clink (adjusted with fuel surcharges)

BTW, if you like tin ceilings, check out this guy. I used him for my kitchen and was a great person to work with. http://www.tinceiling.com/

Dan

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Dennis.....one thing pointed out by someone earlier that I'd recommend....do away with the soffits...Take your cabinets all the way to the ceiling. We have an extremely small kitchen and when I remodel in the not too distant future I'm removing the soffits. My wife can gain about 30% more storage area. Now granted, you wouldn't want to store your daily used stuff up that high....but that turkey roaster that only gets used 3 time a year....and the tea set you only use when the Queen comes to visit....

[Nancy Laird]

Hey Nancy,
What's a baking center?

Dennis, sorry to be so long getting back to you on this question. A baking center is an area of the kitchen combining an upper cabinet and a lower cabinet where all of the baking supplies are stored. The upper cabinet would hold the flour, sugar, spices, etc. that are used in baking, the flour sifter and mixing bowls; perhaps a marble insert in the countertop for rolling out pie crusts (if you are so inclined); and the lower cabinet partitioned for cookie sheets, pie plates, cake pans, etc. All is in one place so there's not a lot of searching for things.

(If you frequent any antique stores, look for a one-piece unit much like I have described - my grandmother had one in her house and in the days before built-in cabinets and countertops, it was an essential for the well-appointed kitchen. I forget the exact name for them, but they are out there.)

By the way, I looked at Dan's design and I really like it. It still keeps the work triangle, but gives you that huge expanse cabinets for storage and that huge expanse of counter space to catch more of those "essential" kitchen appliances.

I don't envy you this project - our kitchen remodel took 5 months from the day the cabinets were emptied to the day the backsplash finally went up. That was a lot of eating out, frozen and microwave meals, and ordering in.

Nancy

[Glenn Clabo]

A baking center is an area of the kitchen combining an upper cabinet and a lower cabinet where all of the baking supplies are stored. The upper cabinet would hold the flour, sugar, spices, etc. that are used in baking, the flour sifter and mixing bowls; perhaps a marble insert in the countertop for rolling out pie crusts (if you are so inclined); and the lower cabinet partitioned for cookie sheets, pie plates, cake pans, etc. All is in one place so there's not a lot of searching for things. Nancy

Great advice...I can only add...make the height of the counter to the specification of the "baker". If you look at our kitchen the granite is much lower...which makes working on it much nicer.

[Dan Mages]

Great advice...I can only add...make the height of the counter to the specification of the "baker". If you look at our kitchen the granite is much lower...which makes working on it much nicer.

And to doubly add on the baker's center, you want the countertop to be lower than the rest of the kitchen to allow you greater leverage when kneading or rolling dough.