Buying lumber rough or already planed?? HELP

[Bryan Lord]

Hi Shannon and welcome to a wonderful hobby. Yes, winter is the time for doing things in the shop.

I started out with a tablesaw, planer, and jointer right off the bat and don't regret that decision. It is MUCH easier for the novice to work with flat and square wood. Most of what I've seen at the Borg doesn't meet that criteria (and yes on occasion I puchase from them). By the time you purchase 4/4 lumber from them and flatten it you will lose 1/8 to 1/4" in material thickness. Sometimes that's okay and other times it is not. I feel it is better to buy thicker stock and reduce it to thickness you need and it usually will cost far less than purchasing from HD/Lowes.

But, before purchasing a planer realize as someone stated that you will make chips far beyond what you would imagine. Filling a 35/55 gal drum on a project is very common when jointing and planing. A shop vac will not handle a planer! You will need a dust collector with a 4" hose to keep up. So there is another expense.

[Shannon Seelig]

When purchasing rough lumber, is it OK to have it planed right there at the lumber yard for the little extra more expense? Then you can do the fine planing and squaring down to desired size? Or should I just buy the rough lumber, plane it, joint it, and invest in the dust collector? Like I have stated I am very new to this and just trying to get the most information before I purchase anything. I am weighing all options at this point and seeing what you guys and gals think. I'm open to all suggestions!
Thanks again for all of your great help and suggestions,
I really appreciate IT

Shannon

*My wife's grandfather says that the most important thing to remember is: Be smarter than the wood...... Measure twice and cut once*

[Mike Parzych]

Shannon -

Absolutely...any info on the Menominee place would be much appreciated. They have lots of air-dried so at some point I'd like to go there for a "major haul."

[Dan Oliphant]

Shannon, sense this is to be a hobby, your not (or should not) be interested in how fast a project gets completed. To learn how to use your tools, hand and electric, take your time. My suggestion would be NOT to rely on the lumber yard to mill your stock. Work the wood yourself, learn the feel of wood, learn how it "works" with different hand tools. Learn about jigs and fixtures that will assist you in more easily completeling functions. Did you know that you can edge joint your stock with a router?

[Fred Voorhees]

Shannon, sense this is to be a hobby, your not (or should not) be interested in how fast a project gets completed. To learn how to use your tools, hand and electric, take your time. My suggestion would be NOT to rely on the lumber yard to mill your stock. Work the wood yourself, learn the feel of wood, learn how it "works" with different hand tools. Learn about jigs and fixtures that will assist you in more easily completeling functions. Did you know that you can edge joint your stock with a router?

Dan makes a great point - and one that I sometimes myself seem to get caught up in. First off, no one can ever stop learning something about this hobby. There is always room for improvement - or, just to hone your various skills. With that in mind, I agree with Dan that you must remember that for the vast majority of us, it's nothing more than an enjoyable hobby. Therefore, there really is no timetable to adhere to. Afterall, it isn't the end result that is the truly enjoyable, although it certainly is great to stand back and look at a completed project and admire your stuff. Most of the time, for me at least, it is the journey getting to the end - that is the most enjoyable part. And the journey there is what teaches you the finer points. You have to do it to learn it. Hence Dan's recommendation to plain down your own stuff instead of having it done for you. Get your hands on the wood. Experience its characteristics and idiosyncrasies at each stage of its path towards a complete project. Hey, at least that's my opinion.

[Mark Patoka]

Welcome Shannon,
I grew up and went to school literally down the road from you in New London. Lots of good advice you're getting here. Just my thoughts as I started out similar to your situation. I would avoid buying lumber from the home centers unless you absolutely have to or are only going to buy one or two boards. The cost per board foot is outrageous compared to find a dealer or mill.

I was very fortunate when I started building projects out of wood other than pine to have a lumber dealer next to my house in South Dakota that planed down all their hardwood so it was very easy to go shopping for just the right boards, take them home and start cutting to size. Didn't have to worry about a planer at that time. Their prices weren't excessive either.

After moving out to Virginia, the dealers that sold planed wood definitely got their price for it so I found a dealer that sold it rough and invested in a planer. Even though I could run the planer in the garage, after three years I got my dust collector because the planer will makes piles of sawdust. You'd be surprised at how fast the dust collector bags fill up.

Since I started selling some of my woodworking, I will buy that stock already planed to 7/8" because it's still cheaper than my time to process that lumber. My dealer also doesn't charge much more for it already planed.

Another consideration you have is your space. Remember, to joint or plane a 6' board requires at least 12' of space, 6' before the blade and 6' after, just like a table saw. Your basement space may limit what you can do.

Hope you find this info helpful. Either way, enjoy yourself and have fun making things!

[Keith Barkhau]

Shannon,

Below is a link to a website called woodfinder which lets you search for lumber (and other) suppliers in your area. I can't swear it will find good sources for you, but it helped me locate three good ones in my area (Chicagoland).

http://www.woodfinder.com/

As far as having millwork done for you at the lumberyard/mill, personally I have mine skip planed (7/8 or so for 4/4 stock, 1 1/16 for 5/4) and straight line ripped on one edge at the mill. This usually costs just 10 cents or so a board foot, which for me I consider a bargain. I do have a jointer and planer in my shop and I use both frequently, but I find having the millwork done speeds the process along for me. My planing is now just a couple of passes to get to final thickness, and the straight line rip often gives me a good enough edge (especially on shorter lengths) to go straight to the tablesaw without edge jointing first.

Once again this is just my approach and I don't want to knock anyone else's.

Regarding adding a planer and jointer to your shop, I'd have to second the earlier post saying go with the planer first if you can only afford one--there are several good ways to edge joint without a jointer. But for me personally I found that my ability to consistently mill flat and square stock improved greatly once i added a jointer. This probably says as much about my skill (or lack there of) as it does the usefullness of a jointer....

As far as what to buy, if you're looking for used, craigslist.com is a good place to look. If you're thinking new, you can't go wrong with the Dewalt planer mentioned above (its what I use), but for a couple of hundred less the current Ridgid (Home Depot brand) planer is really a very good planer for the money. My father has one and loves it, and it scored very well in a Fine Woodworking roundup a couple of months ago.

Good luck with your woodworking!

[stevo wis]

Shannon, The reason I plane my own is it comes out straight. I had a 6" jointer and 12" planer for many years and ran a lot of stock thru them.
I always plane the best face to about 60% clear, then plane to make it parallel. Joint one edge at 90 degrees, rip the other, then joint. Last cut the two ends. This will always give a perfectly square, parallel, piece of lumber.
There is a great woodworking dealer in Green Bay just off Oneida exit that has a ton of tools and a pretty good hardwood selection. There are also plenty of mills in the area. We also have a guild here in Madison, there may be one in you area.

Good luck. Stevo

[Tim Malyszko]

Here's my recent scenario because I was in the same situation as you:

Recently, I finally broke down and purchased a planer and jointer without the wife's permission. I was hoping to sneak them into the garage without her ever knowing the difference.

When she caught me, I showed her a return receipt for some s4s oak I had purchased at Lowe's to trim a few things out ($6/BF) and then showed her the canceled check for the rough oak, soft maple and cherry I purchased from another source and even she saw how the planer and jointer will pay for themselves so quickly. I was able to purchase 60 BF of select or better rough lumber for the same price as 25 BF of the Lowe's s4s lumber.

In other words, by buying the lumber rough and finishing it myself, I saved over $200 for the 60 BF I eventually needed, which alreay paid for 1/2 the Jointer price. Even my wife appreciated the benefits of buying rough and finishing myself.

Up until recently, I was not building all that much so purchasing s4s or s3s lumber was economical. Now that I have 2 big projects going on - cedar lined chest and patio furniture, which require nearly 200 bf of lumber - it doesn't make sense for me to buy finished lumber.

[Ken Close]

For instance I took about 24 bf of maple from 4/4 to 3/4 the other day. It resulted in me filling a 55gal drum liner bag about three quarters full of dust and chips. Unless you get a dust collection system in place (or constantly use [and empty] your shop vac) your wife will kick you out of the house.

This is a useful thread and I wanted to ask the following for clarification. As Mike (and others) have said, you generate a lot of "waste" in planing to thickness. Has anyone ever done a cost evaluation on the final board that is produced? What I mean is, you pay a lot for a finished board from the box stores. But in paying less for a 4/4 rough board, you wind up paying more per the finished piece. IOW, the waste costs something (as does the subjective value of electricity, amortization of planer and especially knives, and the carting of a 55 gal drum of sawdust up the stairs-- ). So, is the conclusion the same if you look at it from a dollars per finished board basis? (For the moment, disregarding the learning and "feel the wood" aspect that several others mentioned).

Thanks,
Ken

[Kirk Poore]

This is a useful thread and I wanted to ask the following for clarification. As Mike (and others) have said, you generate a lot of "waste" in planing to thickness. Has anyone ever done a cost evaluation on the final board that is produced? What I mean is, you pay a lot for a finished board from the box stores. But in paying less for a 4/4 rough board, you wind up paying more per the finished piece. IOW, the waste costs something (as does the subjective value of electricity, amortization of planer and especially knives, and the carting of a 55 gal drum of sawdust up the stairs-- ). So, is the conclusion the same if you look at it from a dollars per finished board basis? (For the moment, disregarding the learning and "feel the wood" aspect that several others mentioned).

Thanks,
Ken

Ken:

Yes, a lot of wood is wasted when you have to plane to thickness. But I've found the price difference more than makes up for it. For example, I build a lot of benches. Each takes about 4.5 bf of 3/4" oak and about 1.5 bf of 5/8" oak. I would need to buy 6 bf of 3/4" oak at about $4.50/bf or $27. Instead, I buy 8 bf of 4/4 roughsawn oak from a mill for $1.50, or $12. Also, I buy in much larger lots, so I don't have to go get it very often. Doing that with s4s boards is fine, but you do risk having them move on you due to moisture changes between when you bought and when you use them, so you'll still need to mill them down some.

Finally, when I buy wood I often don't have a specific project in mind. I know I need a lot of 3/4" oak, so I'll buy 4/4 roughsawn for that. Also, I use some 1" planks, so I'll buy 5/4 for those. But for 1/2" final thickness pieces, I'll resaw the 5/4 planks into two 5/8" planks, then joint & plane them down. Little waste there.

Kirk

[Michael Adelong]

Great conversation folks. Lots of good info. I started buying rough lumber fairly quickly as I bought a planer, jointer, and TS within 3 months of each other. One drawback is that you really can't tell (I guess it comes with experience - that I don't have yet) what the planed boards will look like when you're picking through a pile of rough cut. Sometimes you can tell, but the rough boards tend to get real dusty and diirty in the stacks and you sometimes can't see a whole lot. Most places don't mind if you handplane and spray down a little section of a board to take a peek at the color and figure, but you can't plane entire boards (or enough of them) while you are picking through the piles. You have to look for signs that something good is waiting under that dirty, rough, surface.

Yes, if you plane everything to the thickness you need, you will have tons of waste to deal with. This is a great excuse... er... reason... to buy another VERY useful tool - a bandsaw. After adding the BS to my shop, I started buying 8/4 as my standard size stock for everything (when practical and / or reasonable). I needed 1-1/2" square table legs. After ripping on the TS, I had 4 legs 1-5/8" x 2" in size. Before planing, I used the BS to take 3/8" off of the 2" sides of the legs. I was left with 4 legs 1-5/8" square, and 4 pieces 3/8" thick by 24" long. The 4 small pieces are on my small scrap shelf, but I have several other offcuts of similar size and species on the shelf as well. If I plane them to 1/4" thick, edge joint them, and glue them together, I will have a 6"x24"x1/4" panel. Two or 3 of these put together can be very useful. Flat panels for doors, drawer bottoms, jewelry boxes, dust shelves, and a few other uses come to mind.

The other advantage to buying all 8/4 stock is that you generally find wider boards when you go thicker than 4/4 (at least it seems that way to me ).

Most of my projects use 3/4" thick parts, and they often are needed in pairs. It's really nice to be able to get a decent grain match between the matching parts like you get when you cut 8/4 in half, and then plane (and saw if needed) to get matching boards.

Mike