Buying lumber rough or already planed?? HELP

[Shannon Seelig]

HI there!

I have been reading a lot from you "seasoned" woodworkers and you all seem to have great information to help new people that want to start dabbling into the wonderful world of wood. Please take it easy on me with the simple questions that I'm about to ask. I figured this was a good place to start since no one knows who I am and I don't have to feel ashamed of the lack of knowledge and experience I have about woodworking.

I am starting to mess around with small projects ( coat racks, routered signs, fixing and adding to a childrens play kitchen set) using mostly pine from my local hardware store like the Home Depot and the midwest's Menards. I'm from Northeast Wisconsin by the way. I just have the minimal tools like a Tablesaw, a few routers, a belt sander, a spindle sander & bandsaw, NOTHING FANCY YET. I would like to buy some wood to keep on hand, however, I don't know how and where to buy lumber to get the best bang for my buck. I have been reading your Orange vs. Blue stores and feel bad about even going to those places to buy wood because of their quality. I don't want to get frustrated with their wood because it is bad quality and it its going to have poor results with the projects I would like to do. Is the planed wood from these department stores not a good buy for someone just starting out? Should I purchase wood from a lumber dealer? I have been hesitant to go to a lumber dealer for fear of not knowing what I want or what to ask for. I go to the department stores because I can give the sales people a "just looking around" if I don't know what I want AND usually the people that work there don't know too much either because they just came to work after highschool was done for the day. I dont have a planer or a jointer and those are on my wish lists. Are they needed for basic projects like childrens kitchen sets, toy shelves, and eventually a joined table top of some kind? Like I have said, I'm very very new. Any beginner tips and information is truly appreciated! Thank you.

[Fred Voorhees]

Shannon, purchasing your lumber at one of the box type stores is a monumental waste of money. You will pay an arm and a leg for it and in not a long period of time, the excess money you would have paid for it could buy you a planer and jointer. You will get the lumber surfaced and ready to go, but you pay dearly for it. You may want to investigate the quality of the sheet goods at your local warehouse stores such as Lowes and HD, but stay away from the lumber. Your choices are usually limited to oak, maple and poplar anyway.

Ask around at the local hardware stores or look in the yellow pages under lumber or sawmills. I have always preferred to purchase my stuff rough sawn and plain it down myself. I feel that I have more control over the final product that way. You have the tablesaw, that is the core of any shop. Most woodworkers would say that the planer and jointer are the two next logical purchases. With these three machines, you have the ability to purchase rough sawn wood and get much more lumber for your buck and you will also get a lot more satisfaction from bringing a project from the raw material to the final finish.

One other thing that I can add is to just simply come onto this forum and read, read, read. I know I did when I first found it. I immersed myself into the knowledge that can be learned from the experience of the vast sea of craftsman. It's inspiring.

["Jason Belous"]

I am by far not the most seasoned woodworker on this sight. Like yourself i stuck to the big stores in the beginning because it is what i knew. in the long run you are going to get better quality from the mills and lumber yards and a better selection, you will also get a better price if you buy rough sawn, keep in mind you will spend some time milling the boards. being in the north you should be able to find local guys that mill and dry lumber pretty cheap. i buy all my lumber from the u.p. because i can get it at a fraction of the cost, you will also get a better deal if you can find some local ww to buy more board foot. the price will go down. you can probalby by a jointer and a planer that will handle rough saw lumber with an investement of about $1600 for the two this will get you a decent 15" planer and a 6" jointer from most brands. either way you go, we all started out buying from the big orange devil, and at times still guilty.

[Shannon Seelig]

Thanks,

My wife's birthday comes up first and I told her to pick out something that she wants and then I can expect the same amount of cash towards a planer and a jointer. I do really want to get into woodworking as a hobby because the winter this year here stinks. I'm a fisherman and the ice has been no good so far so I'm reading and reading, and reading on here to get some good tips and info. thanks again,
Shannon

[Don Henthorn Smithville, TX]

If you are just starting out stay on the lookout for used machinery. If you find something that looks like a good buy ask here what to check for. You can get a lot more for your money by buying used and with a little help in purchasing it will work as good as the new stuff.

[Dan Oliphant]

Shannon, Don has given you a really good suggestion for equipment. I will add that while you are learning and making smaller projects, buy your lumber from another local woodworker. If your using 20/25 board feet (or less) of material on a given project offer to pay replacement cost and you should be fine. With this method you also acquaint yourself with other woodworkers but also aquire sources for information and maybe even the use of equipment you don't own yet.

[Shannon Seelig]

I just want to say thanks for all of your help and information. I appreciate the advice! I was a little hesitant to jump on here and post a message for fear of my lack of experience. I'm glad I did and you all have been great to the "Newguy". Now its time to sweet talk to the wife into giving me a bigger allowance. I can always pull my 6 year old son into the discussion and tell my wife how important it is for him and I to spend quality time together with wood projects That could work.

If I run into any used equipment I'll will for sure seek help. What are your thoughts on Auctions for used equipment?

For the beginner such as myself, is a 6 inch jointer enough for small table top edge joining and for projects that are not that enormous? Or am I missing the boat as to what the purpose of a jointer is used for and how big I would need to go. I dont think I would have to go much bigger than a 6 inch to get started, but I could be wrong. I'm just doing these projects in a smaller section of my basement so room and space is a big factor.

Take me under your wings and help a new guy out! Any info would be great!
Thanks again everyone!
Shannon

[Mike Buelow]

I just want to say thanks for all of your help and information. I appreciate the advice! I was a little hesitant to jump on here and post a message for fear of my lack of experience. I'm glad I did and you all have been great to the "Newguy". Now its time to sweet talk to the wife into giving me a bigger allowance. I can always pull my 6 year old son into the discussion and tell my wife how important it is for him and I to spend quality time together with wood projects That could work.

If I run into any used equipment I'll will for sure seek help. What are your thoughts on Auctions for used equipment?

For the beginner such as myself, is a 6 inch jointer enough for small table top edge joining and for projects that are not that enormous? Or am I missing the boat as to what the purpose of a jointer is used for and how big I would need to go. I dont think I would have to go much bigger than a 6 inch to get started, but I could be wrong. I'm just doing these projects in a smaller section of my basement so room and space is a big factor.

Take me under your wings and help a new guy out! Any info would be great!
Thanks again everyone!
Shannon

If you are in a corner of the basement one thing to consider with the jump to the planer/jointer lifestyle is that planing will make A LOT of dust. I would say that planing rough cut is the way to go long term, but if you are still doing small projects and getting to know yourself (as I certainly am), perhaps BORG plywood and edging with HW would be ok for now.

For instance I took about 24 bf of maple from 4/4 to 3/4 the other day. It resulted in me filling a 55gal drum liner bag about three quarters full of dust and chips. Unless you get a dust collection system in place (or constantly use [and empty] your shop vac) your wife will kick you out of the house.

Maybe this doesn't apply to you, but I just got done with living thru a big remodel and I don't want to go back to that active dust creation in the house. Just the idea of hauling that giant bag of dust up the stairs makes me sneeze.

[Ian Abraham]

Hi Shannon

First thing to buy is the planer.

Yes you will probably want both eventually, but there are other ways to joint your wood. Hand planes, routers, thickness planers and table saws can all be used if you have the patience / skill / some simple jigs

But if you have a planer you can buy rough sawn timber and use it.

I would suggest you look for a nice lunchbox planer, even the 'cheap n cheerfull' ones work OK, or a nicer one like a DeWalt.

6" jointers seem to be pretty easy to come by 2nd hand, and will do 99% of the jobs you need to do. For any larger boards, the planer sled or handplane skills you learned when you didn't have a jointer will still see you right

Cheers

Ian

[Jim Dunn]

My seasoning consists of a "dish of salt" (misread that in a cookie box one day the cookies didn't survive) I've been buying a small amount ot S3S material and still find that a trip thru the jointer and planer does wonders to my ability to make things square a plumb. Better quality wood can be purchased here locally that is just woodmizered. A little to alot cheaper too.

[Mike Parzych]

Shannon - I don't know how close you are to Neopit, but this is a place I'd like to make a road trip to sometimes. I'm assuming they have a retail aspect to the operation - think I read that somewhere.

http://www.mtewood.com/products.html

[Dave Falkenstein]

Like you, I am a home/hobby woodworker. I have a bit different perspective on rough vs planed materials. I have access to a couple of stores that sell many different varieties of hardwood at decent prices. I seldom buy more than 100 board feet of material for any one project. I buy S3S (planed and straight lined) material and use my planer to machine to the thickness I need. For me the process of machining rough material to size is boring and time consuming, and it produces tons of sawdust.

I have a cabinet saw with an excellent blade, and can rip material to width and get glue line edges with no problem. Therefore, I do not now own a jointer. I had one for a long time and sold it with the idea of upgrading it. However, buying S3S material has eliminated the need for a jointer for me.

I could not manage without a planer, and that would be my recommendation for your next tool. Wood Magazine recently did an evaluation of bench-top planers and they recommend the Dewalt or Delta 3 knife models.

[Shannon Seelig]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the Neopit suggestion. I did a mapquest on Yahoo just to see and I'm about 35 to 40 miles away from there. That is not that far. I'm actually in Clintonville, Wi. I should call them once and see what is available. If I do, want some info?
Shannon

[Randy Johnson]

The advice on getting a planer and jointer is sound but in the mean time there may be another option.
On a few occasions I have been know to buy hardwood at both Lowe’s and Home Depot. It was always a piece of red oak that was simply beautiful, with nice tiger striping from one end to the other. Unlike a REAL lumber supplier that grades what they sell, the big box stores sell the good stuff for the same price as the average stuff. Seven bucks a BF is way too high for plain red oak and is even on the high side for fancy grain but I was willing to pay it because it was surfaced four sides and was way above average in figure.
Since I started woodworking I have bought over 99% of my hardwood from two sources. The first, a small operation close to home would surface plane, even plane to thickness, for a very slight increase in cost per BF. I think the first wood I bought from him was 2.50 a BF for red oak planed from slightly over 4/4 to 2/4.
The supplier that now has almost all my business (Wilhelm Lumber in Franklin County IN for those in the area) sells red oak at 2.10 a BF for 4/4 random width or 2.50 for 11 ½ + 4/4 rough cut. They will surface four sides with one side sanded for an additional $0.45 a board foot. It ain’t cheap, but it’s still less than half of what you would pay for wood that might not be as good at one of the big boxes. I would think that most small to medium sized operations would offer similar services.
The other plus to dealing with places that saw the lumber they sell is that the person you talk to will know at least as much as you do instead of not knowing the difference between pine and oak.

[David Kauffman]

Shannon, Don has given you a really good suggestion for equipment. I will add that while you are learning and making smaller projects, buy your lumber from another local woodworker. If your using 20/25 board feet (or less) of material on a given project offer to pay replacement cost and you should be fine. With this method you also acquaint yourself with other woodworkers but also aquire sources for information and maybe even the use of equipment you don't own yet.

In my opinion, Dan has hit the nail on the head. Search out other woodworkers in your area that have been there already. Reading a forum such as this one gets you far, but talking one on one, and looking around in somebody's shop... touching, asking questions on the fly... that's the real deal.

You don't say where you are from, but if you are in the SE Pennsylvania area, you are welcome at my shop. As for your wood question, I mill and dry my own wood, so rarely buy any. However, check out the local sawmills out away from the big city. Here in PA, if you're willing to drive a couple hours into the country, oak, cherry, walnut etc can be had for much less than retail lumber stores.