Joe woodworker -what do you think?

[Dave Malen]

Alright! SWMBO gave me the go ahead to purchase a vacuum press system.
I've been looking at Joe Woodworker's site and his store Vacuum veneering . com. He sells a kit for $296 which includes a 1.1 cfm gast continuos duty pump plus filter, liquid filled guage, tubing and connector -plus a bleeder valve to adjust pressure. Seperately he sells a 30 mil vinyl bag (4x4) for $90 . You must build a bag closure out of 4 inch wide board. I am not a professional and I don't see me making any curved veneered projects in the near future so I thought this inexpensive system might be a good start. Also I'm not interested in spending the time to build any of his diy systems.
Your input on my decision is much appreciated.
Dave

[Mike Henderson]

I built one of JW's vacuum systems and have been quite satisfied with it. I also bought one of his bags and it's worked well. The closure on his bags is not the best. I bought a better closure from Vacuum Pressing Systems. They don't list it on their web site - you have to call them and ask for a bag closure (they come for different width bags so know your width when you call). It's a lightweight plastic tube and "C" tube - works well. I think I paid about $15 for the closure but they hit me with excessive shipping charges - pin them down on shipping if you order from them. And buy two closures while you're at it. You can open both ends of the bag which makes it easier to load some things into a big bag - get a person on both ends of the bag to put your work into the bag.

The problem with the wooden closure that JW recommends is that it's too heavy, especially when you put the clamps on it that you need to.

When you buy your bag, get the biggest you can afford if you plan to only buy one. You can use a big bag for small things but if your project is too big for the bag, you're stuck. You can use your bag closures to reduce the working size of the bag when doing small things - just move your bag closure up on the bag.

Mike

[Mike Henderson]

One more thing. A 1.1 cfm pump is pretty small. Don't be afraid of the kit. You can buy the kit for about $150 and a 3+cfm rebuilt pump (from JW) for maybe $135 and you'll have something that you won't have to upgrade later. Buy both the kit and pump at the same time and he gives a discount on the pump. I don't remember all the details but communicate with him and he'll help you. He bent over backwards to help me put a "deal" together that worked for me (and I'm cheap).

The kit really is easy to build. If interested, I'll post a picture of the kit I built.

Mike

[added note] I just checked JW's site and he's offering the kit and a 3+cfm pump for $265. You'd have to buy some plastic pipe but that's probably not more than $20. So you could get an intermittent 3+cfm for about what you'd spend for a 1.1 cfm continuous pump.

[john lawson]

I have used Joe several times for veneer, glue and a bag. All of his products and advice have been first rate.

john lawson

[Dave Malen]

Mike,
Thanks for your reply. I really didn't want to spend the time building a kit.. I'm about 9 months behind on a wedding gift for my son. Well maybe I'll have it ready for their first anniversary. I do see your point - price wise the kit gives a lot more for the money. He also sells a pipe kit for $26 and he will tap the end caps for an additional $10. That would save me some time. So I'll probably give the kit a try. I'll tell my son that his custom furniture shop has to do some retooling BTW - How quiet is that rebuilt pump?
Dave

John,
That's a great endorsement. You don't work for him do you?
sriously - Thanks Dave

[Per Swenson]

Dave,

I don't work for Joe either.

We built our own press using a robinair pump and one of Joe's

double pvc tank designs.

I bought his bags, glues and tools.

His shipping, sevice and knowledge are first rate.

My opinion, another Jewel of the internet.

Per

[Mike Henderson]

Mike,
Thanks for your reply. I really didn't want to spend the time building a kit.. I'm about 9 months behind on a wedding gift for my son. Well maybe I'll have it ready for their first anniversary. I do see your point - price wise the kit gives a lot more for the money. He also sells a pipe kit for $26 and he will tap the end caps for an additional $10. That would save me some time. So I'll probably give the kit a try. I'll tell my son that his custom furniture shop has to do some retooling BTW - How quiet is that rebuilt pump?
Dave

John,
That's a great endorsement. You don't work for him do you?
sriously - Thanks Dave

The pump isn't that noisy but it does make some noise. However, it's an intermittent pump which means that it only runs when the vacuum drops below some pre-set point. So if you're working in the shop while you're pressing, what you hear is a long run when you first start the pump (while it evacuates the bag), then it shuts off. Then, maybe every 10 - 15 minutes (maybe shorter) it runs for a short time to pull the vacuum down again and then shuts off. My shop is so small that when I have the bag in the shop, I can't do any other work, so I usually do my pressing at night - which means that I'm not in the shop while it's running. But if I was in the shop, I don't think the pump would bother me. The rebuilt pump was no noiser than the one we used at school and the instructor lectured while the pump was running - and didn't have to raise his voice.

Tapping the end caps is not difficult but having him do it is not a bad deal.

There's a lot of fittings that you have to put together with teflon tape. What you'll find is that the fittings will leak a bit when you first test the kit but they'll leak less after a day or so. I don't know why, but maybe there's a "fitting" period where things come together, especially the fittings on the plastic pipe.

I'd really recommend that you get the 4x6 bag instead of the 4x4 bag. The 4x6 will allow you to do some tables that you couldn't do with a 4x4 bag. Call or e-mail Joe and tell him that you want to buy a system (kit, pump, bag, plastic pipe and he does the tapping) but you can only spend so much (LOML will only let me spend $x). Ask him if he'll work with you. He may offer you a 4x6 bag with some cosmetic defect in order to come close to your price (the defect may be so small that you may not find it when you get it). He's a good guy and willing to negotiate.

Note that you get $20 off on the pump if you buy it at the same time as the kit.

Not associated in any way with JW.

Mike

[Dave Malen]

Mike,John,Per,
I'm going with the kit. Cost - Builder's kit $147,plastic cylinder kit with tapping - 36, rebuilt pump 115 . So that total is $298.Then a 4x6 bag would be another $120 which would bring it to 418 + shipping. That's in the budget.

Best Regards,
Dave

[Tim Martin]

The kit really is easy to build. If interested, I'll post a picture of the kit I built.

Hi Mike, I ordered a Vacuum press kit from JW and am going to start building it hopefully in the next few weeks.

I would be interested in seeing a few pics of you set up, cheers Tim.

[Mike Henderson]

Here's a couple of pictures of my kit. Couple of pointers. He gives you a starting cap for the pump. When you mount it, I recommend that you mount it where nothing can fall across the contacts. I made a holder to mount it with the contacts down. Just take a piece of plywood and use a Forstner bit to drill a hole about the size of the cap, then saw the plywood in half. Mount it with drywall screws. [edit] I think I glued one half to the main board and only used the drywall screws to pull the two halves together.

One other pointer is to put the gauge inside instead of outside like JW has in his directions. The reason is that this mounting will protect the gauge somewhat from getting hit or damaged.

Although not shown in the pictures (I added it later), I put a couple of pieces of wood on the piece that holds the big pieces of PVC - to wind up the vacuum hose. I wanted to use it for both the vacuum hose and the power cord but it was too small so I wind the power cord around the top.

I tried using a quick connect but went back and direct connected the vacuum hose to the plumbing.

Good luck and post pictures of your pump when you complete it.

Mike

[john lawson]

A couple of other points to consider:

I bought a Gast pump off ebay. It is new, cost me a little over $100 and is 1/4 hp - it pulls 24" of vacuum. Mine is a diaphragm pump so it is much quieter than a rotoray vane pump. I do not use a cut off valve so my pump runs continuously until the job is done. I have been making curved doors the past three days in an unheated shop in Alabama. I glue them up in the morning, let them run 24 hours, take them out and put in a new batch. ( on this set up I am using aliphatic adhesive, the shop is about 50 degrees f. )

The reasons I don't use a valve are the cost, and it's something else to fail. I figure the Gast is industrial grade, it never gets warm, and the simpler the equipment the better. And a noisy pump will become a problem with a lot of use. Just a couple of things to think about.

good luck

john