new bench thoughts - Leg Vice - benefits?

[Robert Trotter]

I have been thinking about my new bench (so I can get the materials along with my shed materials (walk-in toolbox = small) and have been thinking about what kind of vice to use. As well as the bench design. Roubo style or more standard type. Either way I want the front of the bench and the legs to line up.

I have been toying with the idea of a leg vice and was wondering if anyone else has one or has used one. And what you think about it compared to a regular vice. What are the advantages and disadvantages?

My original idea was a LV twin screw on the front of the bench to give a very wide face vice. But that may have been due to my using a workmate most of time till now. You know...most stuff in the vice rather than using plane stops on a nice bench. Would a very wide face vice be a bad idea?

For a leg vice What screw to use? A press screw or a Scandinavian Shoulder Vise Screw? They are different,aren't they? And were to get them online? The same for a wagon vice. What type of screw to use?

Also I have been reading Chris Swarz's blog. What are your thoughts on why an angled leg vice? For my limited space an angled leg vice might reduce the available useable space under my bench. But I was wanting to know why an angled leg vice so that I could ponder which way to go.

While I'm here, a question about making the top. If gluing up a top, can I use say 70mmx70mm Ipe or balau or is it better to glue up 70mmx30mm?

Thanks for any help.

Rob

[Justin James]

The standard leg vice just annoys me. If you decide to build one, I've got a couple of old ones around I can get a pattern off for you. I just got them to strip the screws from. They seem to use a standard vise screw (Highland Hardware sells one similar to what I mean as a "tailvise screw"), or see below.

Now the "angled leg vise" is a different matter. I grew up using one of these jackleg vises (literally--started using one the summer after I turned four). I hate 'em.

The problem with both vises is in the way they hold the wood. The jackleg vise does allow you to have a better grip on wood held vertically in the vise. This is particularly useful when dovetailing for instance. There's also a bit less racking in the jackleg vise; something to do with the angles, though I've never bothered to figure the trig of it all.

Both designs require either a greater acceptance of racking (and the accompanying slippage of wood) than I've ever found in my heart, or you have to fiddle with some pin-in-pegboard or bottom-screw method intended to drive you crazy and occasionally keep the face of the leg vise parallel to the leg of your bench.

In my mind, for face vise applications, nothing beats a good solid cast iron vise, like the Record. Not a quick-release-and-annoy-me vise, but one you have to endlessly turn to adjust: because they don't slip. I really hate slippage . . . a close second is a good shop-made wooden face vise using a metal screw. I'm working on a couple of these now, because I can't seem to find a non-quick-release vise I like.

Another option for vise screws (including the wagon vise or a tail vise) is to buy acme rod and nuts, and fab up your own. A 3' length of rod 1-1/8"x5 is about 27 USD from Wholesale Tool. That's enough for a wagon vise and a decent face vise. Nuts run another 5-6 USD each, and you'll want 3 (one for each vise and one for a welding "oops!").

Hope this helps. Drop me a PM if you'd like pics and measurements of the old leg vises; I think I've even got a couple of ancient fab'd-up vise screws around you could use for inspiration.

[Wendell Wilkerson]

Robert,

Do you have the Woodworking Magazine with Chris Schwarz's article on the Roubo bench? Very good info on this style of bench. Also his blog has lots of info especially on a wagon vise. For his vises, Chris used a tail vise screw (available from most woodworking suppliers) for his leg vise and a press screw (from Rockler) for the wagon vise.

I mentally debated between a twin-screw face vise and a crochet/leg vise combination for a while. I am going to try a crochet/ leg vise for now. It's cheaper and I think it would be easier to change from the crochet/leg vise combo to a face vise than the other way around.

Wendell

[Michael Hammers]

I debated for a long time on which type of vise. I do not really see too many advantages on the leg vise. Actually after reading Chris S. article Roubo bench and seeing some better pic's I decided it would not lend itself well to the type of work I do. Which raises the biggest question, what type of work are you going to do?
I am using two large wooden screws for a front vise after FWW Mike Dunbar bench. Which also sports a wooden tail vise. The parts come from Crystal Creek Mill out of NY and are beautiful. I like the purity of an all wooden bench, my chisels do also!
If you havent already go straight away and get Scott Landis's book on workbenches. It is almost a necessity if you are planning and building a bench.
Good Luck!

[Kelly Anderson]

I built the Roubo bench from Woodworking Magazine at the end of last year. I did not get to use it much before it got too cold but I like the leg vise so far. My first bench, another Chris Schwarz design from PWW, used a regular iron vise with wooden jaws. I think that I will like the leg vise better.

[Phil Hirz]

I recently built a Roubo style bench based on Chris Schwarz' article in Woodworking Magazine. I actually like th leg vise a lot better than I thought I would. It has tenoned piece with holes drilled at different spaces and you inset a dowel in the appropriate hole to prevent racking. I could see how this could get old if you were constantly working with different thicknesses of wood, but most of the time I can use the same setting. The screw is fairly low on the bench so you can clamp longer pieces fairly easily. The vise also has a pretty serious grip and holds my work without a problem. Here is a picture of the near finished bench.

[Robert Trotter]

Thanks for the input. I'll have to think a bit more about the vice.

[Doug Littlejohn]

Justin, you mention a source for the acme rod & nuts as wholesale tool. What is their URL ?? Google turns up so many different places, I can't figure out which might be it.

Thanks.

Sherwood

[John Schreiber]

What is their URL ??

I found them at
http://www.wttool.com/category-exec/...Rod/page_num/3 Better prices than McMaster Carr, but smaller selection.

[Justin James]

That's the one, John; thanks for posting the link. I'm still figuring out the rules about posting links here, figured it was best to err on the side of caution.

[Jerry Palmer]

I replaced the front vise that came with my store bought bench with a leg vise and have loved it ever since. I used the tail vise screw from Lee Valley for mine. The added depth above the screw handles a goodly amount of work held vertically and it is a simple matter to stick a piece of scrap in on the side opposite the screw just as you would a single screw front vice for those times when the piece exceeds the screw depth in length. The length of the screw from LV gives me massive capacity.

In addition to the added depth, other benefits are its simplicity and its cost.

Mine won't win any beauty contests, but it does the job. Here's a pic holding a table top recently that I used a drawknife and compass plane to create the curved front.



And a setup for planing endgrain on the same table top which was just a bit deeper than the screw. You can see the scrap piece in the vise next to the workpiece.

[Robert Trotter]

Thanks for the pictures Jerry. I really like seeing pitures of work benches being used. It really help to show HOW they are and can be used.
Thanks also Phil for your pictures.

I have a question for you Phil about your new bench. If you had the table top that Jerry has in his picture, how would you mount it on your bench to work on it? Jerry has an apron with dog holes to clamp his work against.

Rob

[Phil Hirz]

Hi Rob,

If I had to clamp that same table top onto my bench I would clamp one side in the vise and then clamp the other side with a bessey or pipe clamp across the bench. My bench is 24" across so this is no big deal.

The biggest thing lacking from my bench is a tail vise style of clamping with rows of dogholes. Chris Schwarz added a wagon vise to his bench which is basically a tail vise type mechanism which runs in a large groove (hole) which he cut out of the far saide of his bench. You can see it in his blog in the URL below.
http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/...g%20Posts.aspx

Personally if I decide to modify my bench to add this functionality I would probably add a Veritas twin screw vise to the far end of my bench and bore out a series of dog holes. Adding one of these vices though would double the cost of my bench.

Let me know if you have any more questions.

-Phil

[Kirk Crawford]

Phil,

What method did you use at the bottom of the vice when you clamp something up?

I have built added a leg vice to my bench, but I didn't think about that space at the bottom of the vice.

W. Kirk Crawford
Tularosa, New Mexico

[Kirk Crawford]

Jerry,

I am interested in what you did with the space an the bottom of your bench leg vice.

I have build a bench and added a leg vice. But I didn't think about the space at the bottom of the vice. And what I have come up with, I don't like.

Thanks
W. Kirk Crawford
Tularosa, New Mexcio