Full-Color Laser Engraving

[Rob Bosworth]

Could we be a little quick to bludgeon these guys? I looked at the samples they had last year in their booth at the ARA International show, and they were pretty impressive. Since I do not do engraving for my livelyhood, I did not understand where the application could apply. But the samples were pretty cool.

I also do not know these fellows who are trying to bring this process to the marketplace. I met them briefly in their booth. They did not appeear to be ax murderers, but I guess I don't know what an ax murderer looks like. They appeared to look a lot like US.

Are they trying to make money? I hope so. I think they are some business guys trying to figure out how to make some money on a neat thing that they either discovered, developed, or stumbled upon. We have heard about this process/ product for a couple/ few years. It seems like last year they were trying to come to an agreement with the laser system manufactures to get some return on their investment from them. Now this year, it sounds like they are trying to make some $$$s by trying to sell it to us. They have a tiger by the tail. They have invested a bunch of time and energy into developing this cool idea. I would also guess that it will have a fairly short shelf life. Once the word gets out that it is a doable process/ product, it won't take long for others to jump on the bandwagon. The more the product gets exposed, and the more money that is involved, the more knock-offs there will be. And these guys might just get left holding the bag. Nothing to show for the efforts except for a bad taste in their mouths from getting beaten up on an internet forum or two (or three).

Let's give them a chance. Let's see what we find out about what they have to offer. Can't hurt any of us if someone comes up with another way for all of us to make some money. Then, if this proves to be some kind of come-on, then we can hang em high

[Thom Price]

Hello again to all

I decided to let this thread percolate a little before getting back on, as I know many people are asking real questions and some, many of them not posting. Others are just unwilling to consider this as legitimate regadless of what I may say, we went through this on the Laer engravers etc.forum before, but after seeing many, actually most are now supportive.

First, we have spent a great deal of time and resources developing a method to find a way for laser owners to produce a very durable color product to interested clients, of which their are many. We took our time to be sure this was possible to teach and grasp easily. We offer territorial protection for the benefit of those who are willing to invest a significant amount of money in offering this new technology. We redesigned the materials for the best possible results using this process (with permission of course). We have worked tirelessly on increasing machine speeds to make it more profitable to the end user. machines can now operate at faster speeds than before and soon we will increase that further.

We have some excellent attorney's keeping us informed of all legal issues.

There are many serious business people operating lasers who are anxious to do more and make more with laser technology. Atomic art is now one of those ways and will help make them more profitable.

Answering technical questions or getting into debates is not my intention and I will not do that here. We will be at the ARA show and everyone is welcome to come see, ask questions, even the tough ones and make their own determination as to wether or not this process will be viable for them.

Our classes have beeen designed to enable Atomic Art licensees to be successful. We only have the capacity to train a small number of people per month at our facility and a few more when we begin on site training.

Color has been sorely lacking in laser applications and we have solved that problem. We are excited about that, and many laser owners are excited also, it is those people who will find a way to be involved. And it is those people whom we are committed to work with and make successful.


Thom Price
Atomic Art

[Mitchell Andrus]

Thom,

If you have a great product, you'll do fine. But, with all due respect... We are sceptical for a bunch of reasons. We've all got tools bought at a wood show that sit unused in the garage....

Infomercials tout "unlimited income" schemes which are nothing more than the rights to re-publish a "get rich by re-publishing this book" book.

Some SERIOUS questions: (you may post your replies here, as I am not going to visit you at a show and ask)

Are the materials required in the process available for purchase elsewhere by anyone who isn't in your program?

If your manufacturer sells this potion to me for instance, what recourse do you have against your supplier? Is this by contract? May I review it?

If someone reformulates the chemicals and sells them on the open market for 1/2 of your selling price, (the Chinese are good at this) what recourse do you have that would "protect" your $5,500.00 trainees?

Do you have exclusive access to the materials involved in the process?

How is this process better than any other four color process and why would anyone want me to apply this process instead of other proven technology?

Can I review a contract NOW? Perhaps you'll post it or email it to me so my attorney can review it before I commit any money.

I await your speedy reply.

[Tom Majewski]

Good luck.
I see that even today, after all these questions, your website is still the king of minimum information.

From Amway to Rug Doctor to McD's, people thought they had a leg-up with protected territories. Technologies change, chemicals improve, tools get cheaper every day, and what I bought yesterday is obsolete tomorrow, so unless your patent covers "Anything of color done by ANY laser" I don't see the buy-in.
People - end use customers, distributors, fabricators, don't like being locked into a single source supply and it's only a matter of time till....whatever you do, is done by someone else cheaper and faster.
And you total lack of exactly saying what you do- just showing a magic picture on your site and saying for $5K I can do the same. Seriously, it sounds like any other get rick quick website out there.

I'd still like to see you answer some of Mitchell's questions becaus they're the same ones I have. Also tell me the real advantage over dye-sub, photo underglazes for ceramics, ect. Is it cheaper, faster, more durable?
Lots of people have estimated what a final minimum selling price for this process might be, in excess of $200 per 12" tile. Is that true. What is you targeted customer base for this price?

How much is the royality kickback ? is it per sales dollar or per item. And my question as posted before, can a licensee sell worldwide/nationwide via the internet/mail order, or just within a set geographic area?



Edit - I'm sorry, I reread your post where you said answering questions is not your intent. nevermind.

[George M. Perzel]

Hi Thom;
I asked you, in good faith, some very basic questions which could have been easily answered with minimal effort by you without divulging any trade secrets or proprietary information. You choose not to answer them- I wonder why?
Your continued insistence to characterize your process/technique/method as the greatest thing since flush toilets without providing any useful information is the reason their are so many doubters in the audience.
Some of your early supporters on this forum implied that all would be revealed by you in your postings - wonder why we haven't heard from them recently? Now you imply that all will be revealed at the ARA show- I hope so for the sake of those investors who you have already convinced to ride the train to untold wealth and prosperity, but your continued refusal to provide answers has convinced me that this is not a viable opportunity and probably is, instead, an attempt to cash in on a non-patentable process before the recipe become public knowledge.

[Dave Fifield]

Dear Thom,

Please note that neither I nor my questions are ignorant. My intentions and questions are serious, and I hope you take them as such (for your sake).

Hello again to all

I decided to let this thread percolate a little before getting back on, as I know many people are asking real questions and some, many of them not posting.

What does this sentence mean? That there are more questions flying around, but they aren't all being posted? What?

Others are just unwilling to consider this as legitimate regadless of what I may say, we went through this on the Laer engravers etc.forum before, but after seeing many, actually most are now supportive.

Another garbled sentence I fear. I think you meant to say that once people learn the process and see the results that can be obtained, they become supportive. Right?

First, we have spent a great deal of time and resources developing a method to find a way for laser owners to produce a very durable color product to interested clients, of which their are many.

This is being questioned by a lot of laser owners. I for one have not had any requests to do full color work at all. Where is the market research that says there are many interested clients?

We took our time to be sure this was possible to teach and grasp easily.

Thom, laser owners, by and large, are a very intelligent group of people who really don't need much training in order to grasp the subtleties of any new technique/material. Do you really think we need a 3-day training course? I question this. You might do much better financially to offer the product with a simple online tutorial or DVD. Have you considered this?

We offer territorial protection for the benefit of those who are willing to invest a significant amount of money in offering this new technology.

Many times now, the issue of internet sales has been raised. Surely, in this day and age, the internet reigns supreme and all thoughts of territorial protection should be abandoned. In the interests of obtaining the best return on your investment, surely it would be best to allow a market free-for-all. How could you possibly hope to protect sales territories?

We redesigned the materials for the best possible results using this process (with permission of course).

Excellent. How is the material altered? As others have already pointed out, if it is a simple change, then it will be only a short time before knock-off products appear.

We have worked tirelessly on increasing machine speeds to make it more profitable to the end user. machines can now operate at faster speeds than before and soon we will increase that further.

Do you mean that you have been working tirelessly on adjusting the chemical formula of the materials, thus making the process faster? I fail to see how you can possibly have made any difference to the actual speed of the laser engraving machines that we use.

We have some excellent attorney's keeping us informed of all legal issues.

Good. You will likely need them in my humble opinion.

There are many serious business people operating lasers who are anxious to do more and make more with laser technology. Atomic art is now one of those ways and will help make them more profitable.

Indeed. I am one.

Answering technical questions or getting into debates is not my intention and I will not do that here. We will be at the ARA show and everyone is welcome to come see, ask questions, even the tough ones and make their own determination as to wether or not this process will be viable for them.

Isn't this a bit short sighted Thom? There are many many laser engraver owners, such as myself, that will not be attending the ARA show. Perhaps you meant to say that you would prefer to hold off on answering the tough technical questions until AFTER the trade show, when things have been announced properly?

Our classes have beeen designed to enable Atomic Art licensees to be successful. We only have the capacity to train a small number of people per month at our facility and a few more when we begin on site training.

This is the crux of the problem. You believe that your path to financial success is to limit the availability of your product to a few specially chosen people. The larger community of laser engraver owners, however, believe you will attain more success by allowing a market free-for-all. Time will tell us which is correct.

Color has been sorely lacking in laser applications and we have solved that problem. We are excited about that, and many laser owners are excited also, it is those people who will find a way to be involved. And it is those people whom we are committed to work with and make successful.

Sentences should not begin with a preposition. However, I forgive this minor grammatical transgression and embrace the wider meaning of your paragraph. You would be even more excited if your marketing approach were to be modified to include more people at a lower cost-of-entry, in my opinion.

Regards,

[Dave Fifield]

(snip) We've all got tools bought at a wood show that sit unused in the garage....

Ahem, I resemble that remark!

[Jeff Lehman]

I'm not sure if its the photography, but the "look" of the different materials, doesn't appeal to me...but the glass looks very cool!

[Mark Winlund]

"Answering technical questions or getting into debates is not my intention and I will not do that here...

Has your scam alarm gone off? Mine sure has. I have been in this trade for more than 30 years, and have done my share of unwise investments. You are not likely to ever recover your investment, much less make a profit.

Just my opinion,

Mark

[Luke Phillips]

Well, they said that about Henry Ford, Thomas Edison, and Alexander G. Bell - careful, your opinon is close to being libelous. Can't we dispense with the character assasinations and let people decide for themselves? Are you saying beginners are stupid or just that it takes 30 years to learn not to be?

[Eugene han]

You could not find any info by searching either Thom, or Alice, or atomic art. There is no patent application or issued patent. I must suggest never deal with those who use a false name and hide its identity. Whatever he claims is not patentable at all. What is the number, name, inventor's name. As I was told by many laser maker and users, forget it. Anyone use a false name should be banned post here.

[Tom Majewski]

It's possible he just submitted the $80 provisional patent application, which I don't believe are in the database.
That basically gives you a year to research, finance, and file for a normal patent while giving you the right to call something "patent pending" for one year. If after a year, you don't get a patent for whatever reason, your "patent pending" claim is revoked.

[Mitchell Andrus]

Dave,

Time to cut BOTH blue wires on this guy. I just hope nobody gets hurt.

[Bruce Boone]

>It's possible he just submitted the $80 provisional patent application, which I don't believe are in the database.

The other possibility is that they announced around the day they filed to the patent office. I just filed a patent (having also to do with laser stuff) just a few weeks ago and it has not shown up yet.

[Gary Hair]

Dave,

Time to cut BOTH blue wires on this guy. I just hope nobody gets hurt by this clown.

I think that the lynch mob mentality here is simply childish - you really need to get a life and worry about things that:
1. you have control over
2. you have a clue about