New Delta Drill Press Delayed - Again!

[J. Greg Jones]

All of the SC tools have gotten excellent reviews from both magazine reviews and end users.

So which camp does Nancy fall into? My point is that to continue to make glowing recommendations of tools that one does not own and the relationship with the people at SC, without disclosing that fact, is a disservice to those who are seeking recommendations from those who do own, or use on a regular basis, these tools. I like to know the credentials of those I seek advice from-don't you?

[Nancy Laird]

Nancy, ...
I'm more of lurker than a poster here, so perhaps I am out of line for saying this, but here goes. I've noticed that in a number of threads someone will ask about how brand "X" compares to brand "Y". You'll often chime in with a comment of "Have you considered the Steel City ________ ?" What I don't see as often is you mention that you do not own the particular Steel City tool that you are recommending. The original poster may be left with the impression that you like your Steel City _______ when in fact you don't and have not owned that particular model. I also have read here that you have a personal friendship with the management of Steel City, and that you may have a professional relationship with Steel City in the future. It might be worthwhile to mention these three facts when you make a Steel City recommendation, so that everyone is aware of your bias for Steel City. I'm not suggesting that your bias is a bad thing-just different from the real experience of owning the particular model in question and using it to do real work in your shop.

Greg, first, I take issue with your assertion that when I say "Have you considered the Steel City ________ ?" that I am making a "recommendation." SCTW is still only about two years into the market (they actually unveiled their line at the IWF in Atlanta in August, 2006). There are still a lot of woodworkers out there who either haven't yet heard of Steel City or haven't added them to their radar when considering a new machine. I recommend machines that I own--at this time I own three: a 15" planer, a 6" wedge-bed jointer, and a VS mini-lathe (a new acquisition this week--it hasn't even gotten dirty yet). Otherwise I suggest that a potential purchaser consider the machine in comparison with the one(s) s/he may be intending to purchase. There is a huge difference in those two words.

No, we don't own every machine/tool in the SC line--we already had a shop full of other brands when SC came into the market. But we have friends and acquaintances with the machines; we have both "played" with the machines at IWF, AWFS, in the store, in others' shops--and I have absolutely no reservations about suggesting that any potential purchaser of a drill press or a band saw or a cabinet saw consider the Steel City unit against Delta/PM/Jet/Grizzly or any other brand out there.

Second, my personal friendship with management of Steel City and my possible professional relationship with Steel City in the future has absolutely no bearing on the fact that I believe in the company, the machinery, and the people. My husband and I have had the opportunity to deal with the machines from the beginning and if you knew us better, you would know that if the machines were junk, we wouldn't hesitate to say so; just like we don't hesitate to say that the machines are superior, because they are.

There are others on this forum who are just as avid in defending Delta/Jet/PM/Grizzly et al, but who aren't bashed for that cheerleading. But I am. I'm getting really tired of my integrity being questioned because I happen to know the top guys at Steel City and because I like their machines. This is about 3 times on this forum and at least twice on another forum. I've been upfront and honest about my relationship with the Steel City guys and again, I state for the masses:

I DO NOT WORK FOR SCTW!!
I DO NOT MAKE MONEY FROM SCTW!!

I LIKE STEEL CITY MACHINES!

Is that plain enough?

[Gary Keedwell]

Nancy....I always enjoy your posts. That being said, you have to remember that for every ACTION there will be a REACTION. Every time you suggest something that thousands of people read, you must expect some sort of reaction, right?. I don't really think 3 or 4 contrary posts is that extensive considering the vast numbers. Look at it from another perspective. For every ONE post SPANKING you...there are probably hundreds of posters THANKING you.
PS. They say it in their heads....they SHOULD post it, too.
Gary

[Brad Townsend]

So which camp does Nancy fall into? My point is that to continue to make glowing recommendations of tools that one does not own and the relationship with the people at SC, without disclosing that fact, is a disservice to those who are seeking recommendations from those who do own, or use on a regular basis, these tools. I like to know the credentials of those I seek advice from-don't you?

How about glowing recommendations for tools that don't even exist? All Nancy was doing was suggesting what she considered, one good alternative. She didn't say it was the premier DP on the market. As for your comparison of specs, I'll put the cheapest Harbor Freight DP up against your imaginary Delta and it will outperform it every time.

Delta announced these new DPs over a year ago with apparently no idea when they would actually be ready. Was it a marketing ploy to forestall the purchase of competitors products, saying it would be out soon, but knowing otherwise? You see, I have my own conspiracy theories. And just for the record, my shop machines include four Delta and zero Steel City.

[George Lesniak]

Does SC have a drill press other than the 20520? The reason that I ask is because the specs between the 20520 and the Delta 20-959LX don't appear to be very comparable.

Steel city has a new drill press coming out in December that is comparable to the Delta 20-959LX

George

[J. Greg Jones]

How about glowing recommendations for tools that don't even exist? All Nancy was doing was suggesting what she considered, one good alternative. She didn't say it was the premier DP on the market. As for your comparison of specs, I'll put the cheapest Harbor Freight DP up against your imaginary Delta and it will outperform it every time.

Delta announced these new DPs over a year ago with apparently no idea when they would actually be ready. Was it a marketing ploy to forestall the purchase of competitors products, saying it would be out soon, but knowing otherwise? You see, I have my own conspiracy theories. And just for the record, my shop machines include four Delta and zero Steel City.

Who is making a glowing recommendation for the Delta? Certainly not me-it's not my "imaginary Delta" although I do admit that I am intrigued by it's table. My point is that, just as Nancy says there is a huge difference between the words "recommend" and "consider", there is a huge difference between the words "compare" and "contrast". If you say a tool is comparable to a premier drill press, then they must have comparable features. The above-mentioned Delta and Steel City are more about contrasting features, although I see here where George says that SC has something comparable in the works.

As to the idea of a conspiracy theory, I don't know one way or another. It's certainly possible, but given the challenges that I hear that some PM2800 owners are having, I'd also allow for the possibility that the electronics in these new presses are a bigger challenge than what the manufacturers had anticipated. If that is the case with the Delta and if I were in the market for one, I'd rather wait until Delta gets it right as opposed to paying for the privilege of testing it. Or I'd forget the Delta and go ahead and buy the Harbor Freight!

[Gary Keedwell]

Who is making a glowing recommendation for the Delta? Certainly not me-it's not my "imaginary Delta" although I do admit that I am intrigued by it's table. My point is that, just as Nancy says there is a huge difference between the words "recommend" and "consider", there is a huge difference between the words "compare" and "contrast". If you say a tool is comparable to a premier drill press, then they must have comparable features. The above-mentioned Delta and Steel City are more about contrasting features, although I see here where George says that SC has something comparable in the works.

As to the idea of a conspiracy theory, I don't know one way or another. It's certainly possible, but given the challenges that I hear that some PM2800 owners are having, I'd also allow for the possibility that the electronics in these new presses are a bigger challenge than what the manufacturers had anticipated. If that is the case with the Delta and if I were in the market for one, I'd rather wait until Delta gets it right as opposed to paying for the privilege of testing it. Or I'd forget the Delta and go ahead and buy the Harbor Freight!

Some real good points. Some companies have internal conflicts, usually revolving marketing and R&D (Research and developement) and manufacturing. Sometimes the communication between the departments can become clouded. Marketing listens to R&D. R&D tells marketing that the bugs are almost worked-out and were working on the prints for the machine shop. The machine shop starts working on blueprints that haven't been proofed out that thoroughly. Meanwhile asssembly is getting these parts that aren't going together that good and the engineers are making changes to the prints to re-work the parts again in the machine shop.
Around and around it goes and as mentioned above, the consumer is doing the testing that should be done by the manufacturer.
Don't want to steer this thread in different direction but I have heard that good manufacturers like Festool will get all the bugs out and have it vigorously tested before it's release to the general public. Maybe Delta is doing the RIGHT thing???
Gary

[Drew Armstrong]

The issue seems to be zeroing the digital depth guage... It looses its calibration. I got the powermatic variable speed instead... the disadvantage of the powermatic vs. the delta is this... no digital depth guage... less quill travel... and the table does not tilt both ways. The advantage... it has been shipping for a year. It was really noisy and had some vibration till I let it run overnight one time and it broke things in nicely and it works fine... (I have had to do the same thing on a snowmobile in the past and the variable speed comes from basically a snowmobile clutch set up...

Drew

[John Callahan]

Rocklers store in Maplewood had the 17-959L............ $549.

[Matt Meiser]

Amazon shows the 17-959L in stock too. http://www.amazon.com/Delta-17-959L-.../dp/B000HGN6V2

Same price, plus $150 shipping though.

[Frank Castleberry]

I ordered a new Delta 20-950 on 2/19/07. Amazon delayed delivery twice and then, rather unceremoniously , cancelled my order today. Not a good sign.

[Pete Clifford]

The only drill press on the Steel City website is the #20520 17" DP. This is the model that I have, purchased in preference to the comparable Delta model. I agree that it is not comparable to this Delta DP with digital display.

[Frank Castleberry]

Looks like it will be 2008 on Delta's new 20-959. Here's a note from the Delta site.

delta.jpg

[Pete Clifford]

Does SC have a drill press other than the 20520? The reason that I ask is because the specs between the 20520 and the Delta 20-959LX don't appear to be very comparable.

The only press listed on the Steel City website is the #20520 17" DP. It's the one that I purchased when I was comparing it to an apples-to-apples Delta press. It is clearly not as fancy as the upcoming Delta 20-959LX, but I couldn't justify spending the extra $$ over the SC. I used the extra cash to purchase a router and table, instead.

[Eddie Darby]

Makes me wonder if it is true that " ...good things are worth waiting for... ".