If You Could Time Travel . . .

[Belinda Barfield]

I have been avidly following Jonathan Spafford's post "What did the Ancient's Use?". Very interesting discussion which led me to wonder about something. Not wanting to hijack Jonathan's thread, I am posing the question here.

If you could travel back in time to observe wood workers, what time period would you choose, and why? Regardless of the time period I think we would all be surprised at the little tricks of the trade that have been lost. We have each other to turn to here on the Creek, but if a worker was out there in forest all alone lo many years ago he had to answer his own questions - poor guy (or gal). So, when stumped did he just put down his tools and go plow a field until inspiration struck?

With regards to quality standards, do you think functionality outweighed beauty? I know there were some beautiful peices constructed, but there had to be lots of folks who needed a new milking stool - and stat - since the cow just kicked the leg off the old one. In that case the tools wouldn't need to produce perfect work, just sturdy pieces.

Interested to your thoughts.

[Mike Henderson]

I would love to be able to go back and work in the workshop of any famous cabinetmaker - example: John Townsend. I'd love to see how the design of some of the furniture developed over time. What caused them to design what they did? It'd be interesting to see the tools and techniques used, but that would be secondary to my interest in the design process.

For your second question, I don't think there's any question that functional things accounted for a lot of the business of cabinetmakers. For those cabinetmakers whose account books have survived, we see a lot of caskets in the book. In the country, I'm sure that farm equipment was a big part of their business.

There's also no question that the cabinetmakers only did what they had to - many surfaces that would not be seen are rough. They were business people and labor was expensive - the US in that time did not have a labor surplus like England did.

Mike

[Brian Kent]

I think that it was Mike writing last year about how the changes in mobility affected changes in construction. Did more frequent moves lead people to built sturdier furniture that could handle a move on a cart, or would they tend to build throw-away furniture that did not have to be moved often?

My time machine would be one that let me see development of techniques and changes over time.

If I could afford a top quality LN time machine, I would love to see Joseph's shop in Nazareth. My assumptions are that Jesus' dad would be an ordinary worker with strong integrity. What did he use and how did he run the family business?

In the same era of history, I would love to see what King Herod's craftsmen would do on the other end of the socio-economic spectrum. The best tools and unlimited numbers of workers. In stone working you could see the differences in stone buildings built under herod. Herodian stone workers left an eight inch decorative trim on twenty foot long building stones - a luxury nobody else could have afforded.

[Dave Anderson NH]

I personally would be somewhat flexible and would thoroughly enjoy any period from William & Mary furniture up throught the end of the Federal Period and into the Neo-Classical. Put another way, stuff built before the industrial revolution made furniture a factory/industrial operation. This is roughly from 1680-1830. During this time designs and some construction techniques changed several times (almost continuously), but work was mostly in the bespoke craft shop mode and few makers or shops had the luxury of building their wares on spec and then waiting to sell it.

The level of craftsmanship and design sophistication varied over the full spectrum from rough cobbled together work to those pieces we view today as art. With some exceptions, rural makers were rarely full time furnituremakers and made their income from a mixture of furniture making, farming, repair of furniture and farm implements, casketmaking, and almost anything else which could produce either cash or goods to barter. Remember that in Colonial and early Federal America there was always a shortage of coin and paper money and that made barter extremely important. The surviving account books of most makers bear this out. In the larger cities furniture was made in specialist shops by full timers. There were often several trades involved in producing a single piece and most shops subcontracted at least part of their work. Veneering, carving, gilding, upholstery, and most commonly, turning, were the common ones. Even within a shop of perhaps 5-6 journeymen there were specialists who had skills different than their peers and work was often assigned by the master to the person who could produce the best work and do it efficiently.

As for quality of the work done, what we see mostly today are the well built pieces which also are faily well designed. Most of the "klunkers" either broke too seriously to be repaired well or were discarded by subsequent generations. While I have no factual basis upon which to base numbers or percentages, I'd wager that what exists today in both museum and private collections is less than 5% of the furniture made and I might be seriously overestimating.

[Steve Wargo]

I'd be content with being a fly on the wall in the shop of the John Seymour.

[Jonathon Spafford]

If I could afford a top quality LN time machine, I would love to see Joseph's shop in Nazareth. My assumptions are that Jesus' dad would be an ordinary worker with strong integrity. What did he use and how did he run the family business?

That would definitely be a fun shop to go visit!!

I think I would like to visit some shops from late Rome through the middle ages and see their tools. I imagine that most of the furniture that wasn't built for royalty was almost exclusively utilitarian. Most of the people were poor and needed to spend most of their money on food and if something didn't have any value then it wasn't needed.

Some of the things we do today rely so much on precision that it would be hard to imagine life without them. I can't imagine life withough a drill press to drill straight holes; or what about mills for milling lumber... or was that all done with axes and wedges; Or even a bottle of CA glue for those minor repairs... I would love to see how they improvised. I am sure that a lot of the stuff they did relied on knowing geometry and having good eyes. Now days we rely on the machines and jigs to do things for us... back then they wouldn't have had much of that!

Fun topic!!!

[Belinda Barfield]

In stone working you could see the differences in stone buildings built under herod. Herodian stone workers left an eight inch decorative trim on twenty foot long building stones - a luxury nobody else could have afforded.

Along those lines, I read somewhere once that when King Edward I was building Stirling (hope I have that right) he had the latest and best earth moving equipment . . . 1500 men with shovels.

Thanks for all the responses, this is really interesting to me, and I hope for all of you as well.

[Ryan Cathey]

Peter the Great,one of the czars(or last, can't remember)of Russia. He was a woodworker and did some wonderful work. Pretty cool story actually, he traveled out of Russia and under a pseudonym became an apprentice to a shipbuilder. I watched a show on the history channel about him and it showed some carving he did that still had his initials on it. BTW this guy was giant; 6' 8" and could straigten a horse shoe!!

-Ryan C.

[Belinda Barfield]

BTW this guy was giant; 6' 8" and could straigten a horse shoe!!

-Ryan C.

Now, see, I learn something new every day! So far Ryan you have my vote for something I'd like to see up close and personal. I've heard of people who could straighten a horseshoe, but ain't never seen one.

[Belinda Barfield]

Was hoping to get a few more responses to this post. I know there have to be some wannabe time travelers out there. So, I'm gonna bump it and see if I get any bites. Maybe it just isn't that interesting.

[James Mittlefehldt]

Problem I have is there are likely a hundred places I would like to go.

For instance would like to see some Oriental types doing stuff a couple a hundred years ago, would love to spend a day or ten in the Dominy workshop in Long Island circa 1800, or perhaps Duncan Phyfe's shop, when he was active.

I would also love to see the local country craftsmen here, ie South Western Ontario, many of which were doubtless sort of like Norm Abrams, skilled carpenters who made basic furniture, like dish dressers, and kitchen work tables. Then there is England, Scotland, France, yea I think preferably late eighteenth, early nineteenth century, and then travel a lot within that era.

[Wendell Wilkerson]

Do we get bring tools back with us in this hypothetical adventure? Just kidding.
I would love to study marquetry and inlay from a French master like Andre Charles Boulle. I don't know much about the luminaries of the Federal Period but I'd love to go to Baltimore to learn how to make demi lume card table from a master cabinet maker.

Wendell

[Greg Cole]

"I am sure that a lot of the stuff they did relied on knowing geometry and having good eyes. Now days we rely on the machines and jigs to do things for us... back then they wouldn't have had much of that!"

Reminds me of watching a couple of my great Uncles building a timber frame barn when I was a child. Not one level, transit or any tools was used for "straight-plumb-level". These 2 old men (in their 70's at the time)were old school, born & raised in Finland and this was the family trade. Absolutely everything was "eyeballed" and joinery was all hand done, timbers were raised with ropes and a couple of pulleys. They hand cut logs even though there were chainsaws in the back of the trucks etc etc....

Sorry this isn't quite relevant, but worthy of telling as it is a fond memory and somewhat charted my path to Neader ways as I evolved into a WW'er....

Greg

[Belinda Barfield]

Very relevant Greg, and a great reply. A stroll down Memory Lane is very much a form of time travel.

What craftsmen they must have been! I can understand why that would have influenced you.

Thanks for your post.

[Belinda Barfield]

Do we get bring tools back with us in this hypothetical adventure?

Wendell

Why not? After all, it is your hypothetical adventure so I guess you can hypotheically do pretty much what you want.