If You Could Time Travel . . .

[Belinda Barfield]

True, the sorcerers would have to get another job. However, it is possible that you would be hanged as a witch (warlock in your case).

[Mike Henderson]

Verrry Interesting! I had not thought of traveling forward to see what the future might hold. Now for the deep stuff. Can you travel to somewhere/thing/time that hasn't happened yet? Does everything exist all at once?

If you could travel forward in time, you would not be able to return to this time unless your memory was wiped of all knowledge of the future. There's a conflict with any knowledge of the future. It the future is known, really known, then free will is lost. If the future is known, you are then living a script, without the ability to freely choose. You may think you are choosing, but if the future is known, you aren't making a free choice because your choice was forced in order to match up with the known future.

"Any knowledge of the future denies free will."

Mike

[Belinda Barfield]

ost. If the future is known, you are then living a script, without the ability to freely choose. You may think you are choosing, but if the future is known, you aren't making a free choice because your choice was forced in order to match up with the known future.

"Any knowledge of the future denies free will."

Mike

I agree to a certain extent; however, if I know the future, and have the opportunity and ability to change the script, isn't that free choice as well? If it hasn't happened yet is my choice forced to match up with the unknown future? You argue for an absolute, pre ordained future with no alternative paths. Knowledge of the future allows free will moreso than knowledge of the past. We cannot change what has been, only what is to be.

[Mike Henderson]

I agree to a certain extent; however, if I know the future, and have the opportunity and ability to change the script, isn't that free choice as well? If it hasn't happened yet is my choice forced to match up with the unknown future? You argue for an absolute, pre ordained future with no alternative paths. Knowledge of the future allows free will moreso than knowledge of the past. We cannot change what has been, only what is to be.

If there's only one future and someone has knowledge of that future, then there's no free will.

If you can make a choice that is not part of that future, then the future is not known. But if the future is known and can't be changed, then you don't have a choice - you're living a script. It's pretty cut and dried logic.

That's why I don't believe that the future can be known - because I believe in free will.

Mike

[James Brothers]

I’ve got to agree with Brian Kent, Joseph's shop would defiantly be one place that I would like to see. But personally I think I would go back a lot farther than that and see the true master builder at work.
The second that I saw this post I was reminded of something I read just the other morning.

I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind.

Who better to see at work then the one that created me and gave me my skills?
Ex 31:3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts

It’s to bad though, that we can’t go back. Being that we cant I thing a better question to ask would be, were would you like to see yourself in the futre. I would like to know that when I am old and in the last moments of my life that I could look back with joy. And know that I used the skills that God has given me to serve and honor Him. And then to look forward with even greater joy and anticipation.
I like knowing that some day I will be able to talk shop with Jesus’ true father.

[John Schreiber]

The time or place doesn't matter much to me.

I would like to watch craftsmen using their well honed experience to do quality work. I love to watch people who know how to work efficiently without any loss of quality. Especially to watch people who know the solutions to problems they have faced before and are not afraid to figure out new solutions to the problems before them.

Skilled craftsmen and craftswomen like this used to be everywhere. I think there are still people like this in trades ranging from plumbing to brain surgery. But I think that there is less and less of it all the time. The world has become so complex that in most areas of endeavor we are reduced to following a procedure written by someone else or to replacing parts in hope solving the problem.

That's one of the things I like about wood working. It can be simple enough that a single person can complete all aspects of a project and make something useful and beautiful. As part of the Creek, I get to watch fine craftspeople make fine things. I am traveling through time and space and learning from the many here.

[Belinda Barfield]

I would like to know that when I am old and in the last moments of my life that I could look back with joy. And know that I used the skills that God has given me to serve and honor Him.

Thanks for your post James. I have always love the following quote from Erma Bombeck.

"When I stand before God at the end of my life, I would hope that I would not have a single bit of talent left, and could say, "I used everything you gave me".

Just think where we would be today if everyone felt this way.

[Belinda Barfield]

Skilled craftsmen and craftswomen like this used to be everywhere. I think there are still people like this in trades ranging from plumbing to brain surgery. But I think that there is less and less of it all the time. The world has become so complex that in most areas of endeavor we are reduced to following a procedure written by someone else or to replacing parts in hope solving the problem.

I agree wholeheartedly John. I wish I could be more of a free thinker and problem solver. It it comes with instructions, I follow them to the letter - I rarely try to figure out how to put something together. I find myself turning to the Net - this forum being a prime example -more and more for answers and solutions. I do love having the capability but feel in may ways our children will suffer from easy access to "everything". I meet so many people who lack simple survival skills and knowledge. I can't help but think if there is a catastrophe of some sort they will be the first to go.

[Curt Harms]

True, the sorcerers would have to get another job. However, it is possible that you would be hanged as a witch (warlock in your case).

I guess it'd be smart to take some other 21st century goodies along too, huh? I wonder what the useful load of a time machine is?

Curt

[Belinda Barfield]

I wonder what the useful load of a time machine is?

Curt

I have absolutely no idea. Anyone out there want to speculate?

[John Schreiber]

The above discussion of CNC machines and sorcerers made me search for this quote from Arthur C. Clark.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Meaning that we treat things which we don't understand as though they are magic. When people who don't understand computers see something go wrong it doesn't occur to them that there is a reason for it, it is just part of the mystery of computers. As technology the technology all around us has gotten so complex and our scientific literacy has not kept pace, people have lost their relationship with or or sense of control in world.

Around the world, we are more than ever prone to be victims of modern sorcerers who tell us things which makes no sense, but appeal to our hopes and dreams.

[Belinda Barfield]

You are absolutely right from my perspective. I have no idea how all of this works - meaning this forum, the Net., etc. I am a victim of sorcerers who tell me things that appeal to my hopes and dreams. I wish I had a better understanding of the things that make my life easier. I don't, and instead I depend on those who say they do. Such is the path to servitude. Prime example - the Dark Ages. Reading was outlawed for the common man/woman. Sorcerers/Priests controlled all knowledge. "Technology" was the domain of those who had the knowledge.

We are in a different "Dark Age" today. So many people are digesting only what they are fed - whether by Internet, or TV, etc., they never think for themselves, as you said victims of the sorcerers of today.

[Frank Chaffee]

Fascinating thread Belinda…
And John Schreiber, I appreciate your observation of the powers of modern sorcerers. Alongside Clarke’s observation, is Crichton’s concept of “standing on the shoulders of giants”.

For my own part, I would travel back in time to work with Japanese carpenters who laid out curved lines on timbers with twisted ink string cords, and joined wooden members in complex ways that do not require metal fasteners.

[Belinda Barfield]

Fascinating thread Belinda…
And John Schreiber, I appreciate your observation of the powers of modern sorcerers. Alongside Clarke’s observation, is Crichton’s concept of “standing on the shoulders of giants”.

For my own part, I would travel back in time to work with Japanese carpenters who laid out curved lines on timbers with twisted ink string cords, and joined wooden members in complex ways that do not require metal fasteners.

Thank you Frank. I am not familiar with the type of work you reference. Can you point me in the direction of learning more about it?

[Martin Shupe]

Well, I've always thought it would be neat to born around 1800 and go west with the mountain men. (Kind of like Kevin Costner in Dances with Wolves, but in an earlier time period.) Of course, I would get all my shots to nasty things like smallpox before I went. I could witness the exploration of the west until around 1835 or so, then travel back east and live out my life visting all the Shaker woodshops and soaking up their skills, techniques, and designs.