8" jointer connundrum revisited...

[Richard Link]

To start off, I apologize if this thread has been beaten to death in the past. I've read all the previous posts (I think) but I haven't been able to glean an answer to my questions. I am replacing my 6" jointer (ridgid) with a larger machine (8") as I've recently expanded from my one car to a two car garage shop. I have decided on selecting one of the Grizzly machines and am deciding between three models (0490 parallelogram 8" jointer $795 ; 0586 8" jointer $595 and ; 0593 8" jointer with spiral cutterhead $925).

I realize that the primary advantage of the parallelogram design has to do with ease of bed adjustment. I also realize that the difference between a 2hp and 3hp motor on a jointer probably isn't a big deal (the 0490 has 3 hp).

I'll limit my confusion to just two questions:

(1) The table width on the 0490 is only 8" while that of the 0586 is 9 1/4". I realize the blades are the same size. Does the parallelogram design allow the jointing of 8" boards with only an 8" table or does the non-parallelogram jointer have the capacity to joint a full 8" board while the 0490 can only joint a narrower board due to the presence of the guard on a table only 8" wide?

(2) This issue of spiral cutterheads continues to confuse me. I understand that each insert can be turned four ways to apply a fresh edge. However, isn't it a huge amount of work to change out a large number of these inserts? They also seem very expensive to purchase replacement parts for, although I realize that each unit is good for four "sharp edges." Also, how do you tell which individual insert is dull? With standard knives, I can tell when the unit needs sharpened or new knives by the quality of the cuts. With the spiral head, how can you evaluate individual inserts for sharpness?

The two lower priced machines are in my budget while the spiral cutterhead machine would be a stretch....worth it?

I so appreciate any input you can provide. Thanks in advance.
Rick

[Marion Rood]

I would go with the 0593. I drove through Springfield, Mo. last week and thought about stopping at Grizzly. I wish I had a bigger jointer almost every project.
http://www.woodweb.com/forum_fdse_fi...mf/488096.html
Here's a link about parallelogram tables.

[Joe Chritz]

I am replacing the same jointer and will be ordering the grizzly 8" (0586) and a seperate spiral head.

The cost difference is very small to order the straight knife version and a seperate Byrd head.

I would assume that all the cutters will wear about the same unless they are damaged by a foreign object.

Many many boards are processed on straight knives and they work great. The advantages of nearly zero chip out and not having to worry about feed direction are causing me to go with a spiral.

Joe

[Cary Swoveland]

...I have decided on selecting one of the Grizzly machines and am deciding between three models (0490 parallelogram 8" jointer $795 ; 0586 8" jointer $595 and ; 0593 8" jointer with spiral cutterhead $925Rick

Richard,

$925 is the current sale price for the 593. Judging from how long their 15" planer was on sale recently (two or three weeks?), I would expect the 593 to be back to its regular price of $1075 (what I paid last month!) in another week or so.

If you want to follow Joe's lead, all the Byrd (and Grizzly) spiral cutterheads are on sale now. Again, that sale probably won't last long.

You were asking about the longevity of the inserts. Although I am not answering your specific question, remember that the inserts are carbide. In effect, the machine comes with four sets of carbide blades. If you are a hobbiest, you may never have to replace them (except ones that are damaged, of course).

In deciding whether to get a spiral cutterhead, don't forget that they are significantly quieter than planers with conventional blades. That may be a significant benefit over a period of years.

Cary

[Cary Swoveland]

I am replacing the same jointer and will be ordering the grizzly 8" (0586) and a seperate spiral head.

The cost difference is very small to order the straight knife version and a seperate Byrd head...

Joe, you obviously prefer the Byrd cutterhead to Grizzly's. Why? Before buying the 593 I looked into the differences between Byrd's cutterhead and Grizzly's own. All I learned was that the inserts in the Byrd head are set at a slight angle, inducing more of a shear cut than that obtained with the straight-set Grizzly (German-made) inserts, and that the Grizzly head has a "tighter" spiral than the Byrd, which some claim yields a smoother cut.

I have not seen the Byrd cutterheads up close, but I can attest that the Grizzly spiral cutterheads are beautifully machined.

But the proof of the pudding seems to be that owners of both seem to be extremely happy with them. In particular, I've read of no complaints at all about tearout in difficult woods.

Cary

[Joe Chritz]

I haven't used either so I don't have a preference of one over the other. I was thinking about going the seperate head route because it is cheap for a spare.

The slight angle of the Byrd is in theory a better system. I have heard great things about both in lots of reviews.

Byrd is USA made. If the price was more than the $50 difference I would be looking again and going with it over the grizzly head.

I prefer USA made things if at all possible. I do however, still need to eat.

Joe

[jim gossage]

i have the byrd head on an 8" yorkcraft and have been quite happy with it. there are a lot of knives to turn when they get dull, but its only one screw per knife and no adjustment is necessary. you'll only need to change them all when the finish is no longer good, which i'm hoping will be a couple of years for me. also, it seems like i read in one of the reviews that the byrd pattern had a slight advantage and left a slightly better cut than the others.

[glenn bradley]

No please, let's talk about it some more. I am looking at the same three jointers and cannot decide. Like Richard, I understand the value of the p-beds but will I really wear out my dt-ways in my lifetime with my hobbyist level of use? Who knows.

I am intrigued by the idea of not having to set my knives but I have only swapped knives once in two years on my 6" and that was because I hit 'something'.

I also have learned to buy the best you can afford instead of wasting money like I did on my 6". If I'm in for $1000 and $300 more will be twice as good, I'm OK with that.

Decisions, decisions . . . .

[Ted Miller]

Rich, I did the 6" to 8" and now I have a 12" jointer. I went with the parallelogram beds cause I am sick and I love to know I am always flat as possible on the beds.

I never really did any rabbets on my older jointers. But this new one I do them all right on this table and I love it. I can swipe off 1/8 in one pass with no problem and clean.

I cannot tell you how much the extra bed width is major. Not saying I always cut wider boards but with a 45" inch fence and the bed length of 84" it makes longer boards a joy to cut

I looked at Grizzlys G0593 for a while with the spiral head but decided on the 4 knife head and the 12" from York after using both machines. I wanted to be greedy with bed width and length, and I figured $500.00 extra was worth the size upgrade, so the 12" was it...

[Paul Johnstone]

I don't know about the Grizzley's but I will make some general comments.

I hate spending my precious time in the shop aligning and tuning machines. Totally hate it. I want to work wood, not screw around with machines.

So for me, the parallelogram design was worth it.

I didn't get the spiral cutter head because I have a drum sander that sands everything anyhow. Tearout isn't that big of a deal to me, since it's going to be sanded out the wazoo. Plus I was always happy with the standard blades on my 6". Of course, on the Delta, the spiral head upgrade is a lot more complex (if it's even possible) than just ordering Griz, but I did look at other brands with the spiral head.

It's my understanding that the spiral headed griz doesn't have the parralelogram design (I could be wrong).. to me, that's a downgrade that outweighs the upgrade of the spiral head. Regular knives are fine. Now, if they had a parrelogram jointer with a sprial head for only $200 more or so, and I was going with Grizz, I would do that.

[glenn bradley]

Paul,

I generally agree. I know I can't be alone when I say to myself "why do they always stop just short of just right?".

[Rick Moyer]

Glenn, I just bought the 0586 two days ago. (No tool gloat cause no pic posted!). My thoughts were:
I don't want to spend any more than necessary, so... I went with 8" at the consistent recommendations of those on here who know more than I. For my limited skills and use, I felt my money would be better spent on an 8" jointer than on parallelgram beds or helix knives on an 6" jointer. I wanted to get what I felt would be my best bang-for-the-buck. I assume for my use, I should not have to adjust the bed very often, and I could always go to helix knives down the road if I wasn't satisfied with the 4-knife cutter. I also just bought a "used" DeWalt 735 earlier so my budget was shot. All-in-all I suspect I'll be pretty happy with the choices. We all want top-of-the-line, but sometimes the best value is more prctical. No matter what you decide, eventually they'll be something bigger and better to lust over!!

[Dan McGuire]

I have been following this thread with some interest, because I too have been looking at 8" jointers. I read Ricks reply and it pretty much sounds like what I have been thinking. I am going to pull the trigger on the G0586 today or tomorrow.

While my curent level of expertise (or lack there of) will grow, I can't see outgrowing this machine in my hobbiest shop. I think I will look at the cost difference between the this machine and the one with paralellogram beds or the sprial cutter and invest that money in other items needed for the shop.