Incra 32LS-TS Capacity Questions

[Homer Faucett]

I am seriously looking at the Incra fence, and have waivered back and forth between the Incra and the Bies/Bies clone for the Sawstop. My question is this: I don't care about cutting capacity to the left of the blade. Can I use the 72 inch rails that come with the 32 Incra and get 48" of rip capacity on the right of the blade by simply shifting the rails to the right on a Sawstop?

If not, can I add an additional 20" to the rails by buying an additional 72" rail, cutting off two 20" pieces, and somehow connecting that to the end of my installed rail when I need it? If I recall, this is possible with the nearly identical Jointech system. Let me know if I am mistaken, or if anyone else has experience with this.

Thanks a lot!

[Scott Snavely]

The short answer is no.

The width of cut is limited by the length of the LS Positioner part of the TS-LS fence system -- you are limited as I recall to 32" from the blade. By shifting the rails to the right, you can, however, calibrate the stops at exactly 32" and thus gain additional width capacity by shifting the positioner to the outside of the stops. The width capacity will then be the total width to your stops + the amount shown on the positioner scale when positioned outside the stops.

[Homer Faucett]

The short answer is no.

The width of cut is limited by the length of the LS Positioner part of the TS-LS fence system -- you are limited as I recall to 32" from the blade. By shifting the rails to the right, you can, however, calibrate the stops at exactly 32" and thus gain additional width capacity by shifting the positioner to the outside of the stops. The width capacity will then be the total width to your stops + the amount shown on the positioner scale when positioned outside the stops.

Scott, my understanding is that you can get 92" rails, so you can increase cutting capacity to 50", so the brief answer should be yes as to the ability to increase cutting capacity.

My question was simply this: can I get that extra cutting capacity by shifting the rails to the right and taking away my ability to cut to the left of the blade. I understand that this will require the use of stops. Has anyone done this?

My second question was whether I could get the extra cutting capacity by adding a 20" length to the rails by buying an extra set of rails and somehow attaching those lengths to the right end of the original 72" rails. Has anyone done this?

[Don Bullock]

Homer, I've been asking the same question. You solutions seem to be very possible with one exception. I don't know if you can buy extra sections of the table saw rails. I know that Jointech has what they call "floating tables" that will extend their rails, but Justin at Woodpecker told me that Incra doesn't have anything like them, nor will he make something like them. I'm still planning on buying the Incra, doing what you suggest and perhaps even making my own "floating tables" if I find the need and can buy the track. The cost of the Jointech system is out of line with the Incra - IMHO.

[Rich Person]

Actually, I think you get close. I don't remember what the exact maximum of my setup is, but here is the picture:

I think the blade to the top is 12" + 10" wing + at least 22" to the right side of my router plate is 44". It may be more--I didn't measure it. You could also mount the rails another inch or so to the right and still get the same support. I just aligned mine to the edge of the main top for aesthetic reasons.

[Darroll Walsh]

Having just installed the 50" rails you can most definitely slide the rails towards the side you want large capacity with. BT3 owners have done this with their saws for years. I really think you will need to support the end of the rails if you go this way though.

Can you fit the 91" rails to your current setup? That may be an easier option than making removable pieces. You could make removable pieces imo if you added guides inside the tube if the rails and made a locking mechanism. If you go the way of making removable sections please post it up.

[Greg Cole]

I have had mine for maybe 2 months... I love it for all the "advertised" reasons. The one thing I might find a nuisance (if I wasn't 6'2" with long arms) is having the left side router table, as reaching back-over for the positioner lock might be a little annoying for those with a shorter wingspan.
I have since made a high rise/sacrificial fence for the TS as well as a DC box for the router made of 1/2 MDF. The INCRA router fence DC works well and the DC bottom box makes it dust free & the rotor motor is a faint hum. A torsion box style outfeed is on the to do list, but not at the top.
As far as mounting... hang the brackets off the front & rear of your table and the rails can be slid to wherever you want, or at least within an inch or so of the mounting bracket. I have the long rails and moved the left side cast iron to the right and filled in with the WOODPECK RT.... I think my right rip is just about 50" max. Just enough for my long arms to rip sheets solo.
Pic here..... http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=51218

Greg

[Don Bullock]

Rich, I'm liking your set-up even more. Thanks for all your help.

[John Hulett]

I am seriously looking at the Incra fence, and have waivered back and forth between the Incra and the Bies/Bies clone for the Sawstop. My question is this: I don't care about cutting capacity to the left of the blade. Can I use the 72 inch rails that come with the 32 Incra and get 48" of rip capacity on the right of the blade by simply shifting the rails to the right on a Sawstop?

The short answer is Yes. I've got the 72" rails on my contractor saw. Incra/Woodpeck provides two sets of nut/bolt/washers (4 total - two each for front and back rail) that you put on either side of the "cross brace support." You put the first set such that it becomes a sort of positive stop for your 32" capacity which sit to the left of where the cross brace is secured. The other set sits approximately 20 inches to the right of the first set. You can see in Rick's photo, he has one set immeidiately to the right of the cross brace (the part with the knobs facing you in the photo), and the second on the far left end of the rail - presumably to keep from moving the whole assembly off the rails to the left side of the saw. Like the set to the left, the set 20 inches to the right becomes the positive stop for your 52" capacity. Incra/Woodpeck will provide the extra measuring strips so you don't even have to do the math when you're out past the 32" cut.

I can take photo's of mine if my description above is unclear.

I'm very happy with my TS-LS. If I were to do it all over again, I would definitely get it again. The only change would be that I'd probably go without the joinery package in lieu of a Leigh Jig.

- John

[Cary Swoveland]

...The width of cut is limited by the length of the LS Positioner part of the TS-LS fence system -- you are limited as I recall to 32" from the blade...

This points out a difference between the Incra and Jointech systems. With the Jointech, the maximum rip is limited only by the length of the rails and where the rails have been positioned on the saw. The bridge, which is attached to the front and back rails, and to which the positioner is attached, can be slid to any location on the rails.

On my Sawstop, I have the left end of the 72" rails aligned with the left end of my saw table. The blade is 12" from the left end of the table. If I slide the bridge to the right end of the rails, and move the fence up against the bridge, the distance between the (blade-slide of the) fence and the right end of the rails is about 12". In other words, the fence and bridge take up about 12" of rail space. My maximum rip is therefore about 72"-12"-12' = 48".

If I needed more, I could shift the location of the rails the right. The farthest I could go to the right, and still be able to place the fence against the blade, would be to put the left end of the rails about 3" to the right of the blade. That would increase my maximum rip to about 63".

Now, the second issue: the effect of the length of the fence positioner. Whether Incra or Jointech, the positioner--which connects the fence with the bridge--has a scale on it for measuring the distance between the blade and fence. I understand the Incra positioner has a 32" scale; Jointech gives you three choices for the size of its positioner, according to the length of its scale: 12.5", 18.5" and 26.5".

To zero-out the scale, you move the fence so that it touches the blade and then slide the scale to a zero mark. You can then measure the width of the rip with the on-board scale. Suppose you want to make a cut wider than the length of the scale. Can it be done?

It sounds like you are saying that, with Incra's 72" rails, you cannot, because stops keep the positioner from being moved further to the right. I would venture a guess that you could remove those stops and move the fence another 16" or so, giving you up to about 48" of rip width. The only reason for not doing so is that you could not use the on-board scale to measure your cut (and because the right end of the positioner would be in the next county). Am I right?

On the Jointech, the maximum rip width has nothing to do with the positioner that is used. The choice of positioner determines two things only: the maximum rip width for which the scale on the positioner can be used, and the extent to which the positioner sticks out beyond the right end of the rails when the bridge is as far to the right as it will go. The shorter the positioner, of course, the more often you will need to move the bridge to make wider or narrower cuts, and the less often you will be able to use the on-board scale to measure the cut. On the other hand, the shorter the positioner the less it sticks out to the right on maximum rips (and the less it costs).

So, how can one measure the width of a rip if the on-board scale is not long enough? Well, one solution is a technique I've seen old-timers use: holding a tape against the fence, move the fence until the desired measurement on the tape is directly over the blade. Jointech gives you a tape to slide in the rails--I expect Incra does as well--but a better solution, IMO, is to use Wixey's digital read out for table saws ($149, www.wixey.com ). The readout slides along its own 72" rail, which you attach to the fence's rail. You set it to zero after touching the fence to the scale, and then forget about it. It does not need to be reset when you move the bridge, or even if you remove and replace the bridge/positioner/fence assembly.

I hope this may clear up some confusion about how the Incra and Jointech saw systems work. I recall I was very confused when I first looked at those products. They really are very simple, but it somehow took awhile to realize that.

Cary

[Darroll Walsh]

Cary you are correct in that you can move the bridge as far over as you like on the Incra rails. The rails are the limiting factor not the 32" of travel that the fence has. In fact to gain the 51" rip on the standard setup you have to move the bridge. Hope this helps clear up some confusion.

[Homer Faucett]

This points out a difference between the Incra and Jointech systems. With the Jointech, the maximum rip is limited only by the length of the rails and where the rails have been positioned on the saw. The bridge, which is attached to the front and back rails, and to which the positioner is attached, can be slid to any location on the rails.

The Incra works the same way. The second poster was not correct.

My question was how much right rip capacity I could expect from the 72" rails if I slid them over, and whether I could adapt the Incra system to a bootstrapped float table like the Jointech. That is one nice feature of the Jointech, but not worth twice the money, IMHO.

On my Sawstop, I have the left end of the 72" rails aligned with the left end of my saw table. The blade is 12" from the left end of the table. If I slide the bridge to the right end of the rails, and move the fence up against the bridge, the distance between the (blade-slide of the) fence and the right end of the rails is about 12". In other words, the fence and bridge take up about 12" of rail space. My maximum rip is therefore about 72"-12"-12' = 48".

If I needed more, I could shift the location of the rails the right. The farthest I could go to the right, and still be able to place the fence against the blade, would be to put the left end of the rails about 3" to the right of the blade. That would increase my maximum rip to about 63".

That is exactly the type of info I was looking for. I just wanted to make sure that the mounting system allowed this.

Now, the second issue: the effect of the length of the fence positioner. Whether Incra or Jointech, the positioner--which connects the fence with the bridge--has a scale on it for measuring the distance between the blade and fence. I understand the Incra positioner has a 32" scale; Jointech gives you three choices for the size of its positioner, according to the length of its scale: 12.5", 18.5" and 26.5".

You can get several different positioners in the Incra system, but the smaller ones are usually used for dedicated router use. I like the larger positioning for rip, as it doesn't require switching around the bridge on the rails nearly as much.

To zero-out the scale, you move the fence so that it touches the blade and then slide the scale to a zero mark. You can then measure the width of the rip with the on-board scale. Suppose you want to make a cut wider than the length of the scale. Can it be done?

Yes.

It sounds like you are saying that, with Incra's 72" rails, you cannot, because stops keep the positioner from being moved further to the right. I would venture a guess that you could remove those stops and move the fence another 16" or so, giving you up to about 48" of rip width. The only reason for not doing so is that you could not use the on-board scale to measure your cut (and because the right end of the positioner would be in the next county). Am I right?

My understanding is that the stops are set up so that you can quickly position the bridge at exact locations. At the farthest left position on the rails (the left stop), 0" on the tape = 0" cut. At the right stop, 0" on the scale = 0" plus whatever predetermined length there is between left stop and right stop. So you don't have to calibrate, just slide the bridge and set your positioner length.

On the Jointech, the maximum rip width has nothing to do with the positioner that is used. The choice of positioner determines two things only: the maximum rip width for which the scale on the positioner can be used, and the extent to which the positioner sticks out beyond the right end of the rails when the bridge is as far to the right as it will go. The shorter the positioner, of course, the more often you will need to move the bridge to make wider or narrower cuts, and the less often you will be able to use the on-board scale to measure the cut. On the other hand, the shorter the positioner the less it sticks out to the right on maximum rips (and the less it costs).

Exactly. That's why I like the additional 6" you get on the Incra for less dough.

So, how can one measure the width of a rip if the on-board scale is not long enough? Well, one solution is a technique I've seen old-timers use: holding a tape against the fence, move the fence until the desired measurement on the tape is directly over the blade. Jointech gives you a tape to slide in the rails--I expect Incra does as well--but a better solution, IMO, is to use Wixey's digital read out for table saws ($149, www.wixey.com ). The readout slides along its own 72" rail, which you attach to the fence's rail. You set it to zero after touching the fence to the scale, and then forget about it. It does not need to be reset when you move the bridge, or even if you remove and replace the bridge/positioner/fence assembly.

The digital readout would definitely work. The postive stops just let you quickly move the bridge between the two quickly with no concern about what that distance is--it's predetermined.

I have read that the Jointech is more rugged than the Incra. Personally, I like the fact that the Jointech is not bling gold like the Incra. I also like the floating tables design that lets you add some rail length.

However, the positioners appear to work identically to me, and I like the additional length you get on the Incra positioner. In the end, I just don't see that the Jointech at $500+ gives me that much more flexibility over the Incra at $275. So, I guess I'll just grit my teeth and accept that my saw will have some gold bling instead of looking like a rugged machine like Cary's. Cary, I envy you, man.

I hope this may clear up some confusion about how the Incra and Jointech saw systems work. I recall I was very confused when I first looked at those products. They really are very simple, but it somehow took awhile to realize that.

It definitely looks more complicated at first. I think your points helped me clarify things in my mind. Once I watched some of the Incra videos online, I got what was going on, and it just makes sense. I was set on getting a Bies style fence, but I think I'm ordering the Incra tomorrow.

[Don Bullock]

Homer, let us know how you like it once it's installed.

[Homer Faucett]

Well, I just sold my Delta contractor saw last Saturday, and I've been going through withdrawl ever since. I didn't think it would sell as fast as it did. Man, I really liked that Delta, but I know the SS will be better.

I'll be ordering the Sawstop and Incra shortly, so I'll let you know how I like it once it's all set up! Thanks everyone for the great pictures and explanations. It really helped a lot.

Cary, please don't take any of my comments as anti-Jointech. It looks to be a nearly identical machine to the Incra, with some nice additional features. I just can't see where I can get the Jointech for any less than $289 for the 26" clincher and $229 for the 72" rails--the basic setup--plus shipping minus $50 (about $520). Alternatively, the 32" Incra with 72" rails is $275 with shipping right now; although, it is on backorder. Plus, another $45 for the upgrade for the wider fence and bridge to fit the 30" Sawstop table (about $320). Some say that the Jointech is built more sturdy, but I can't see it being nearly twice as sturdy.

[Cary Swoveland]

I just can't see where I can get the Jointech for any less than $289 for the 26" clincher and $229 for the 72" rails--the basic setup--plus shipping minus $50 (about $520)...

Homer,

You forgot to include $200 for Jointech's 38" SmartFence! You're right, the Incra is a lot less expensive, and a very nice package. Had I not already had a Clincher and a variety of accessories for Jointech's router setup, I probably would have gone for the Incra too. (I also had a SmartFence, but just the 32" one, too short for the SS's 30" deep table, so I had to buy a 38" fence as well as the Sawtrain kit with 72" rails.)

Cary