Not exactly fine woodworking but.....

[Greg Ladd]

Hello everyone,


I am currently installing hardwood flooring in our master bedroom and need some advice as I am concerned that I will not be pleased with the final installation if I continue on.

We are putting down 3/4" Brazillian Redwood (prefinished) which unfortunately is proving very difficult. I am please with the color of the floor. Contrary to what the salesman told us, we can not use a pnuematic nailer and each piece has to be drilled and hand nailed as it is too hard and the tongue splits off with a nailer.

I am noticing some noise as I walk across the floor that has been installed. I do some slight uneveness in the subfloor but nothing over 1/8". The subflooring is a layer of 3/4" OSB and a layer of 1/2" OSB over top of that. The house is 10 years old.

Is some noise normal in a newly installed floor? Could it be just settling in? The wood was in the room for over a week before we began installation so it should be acclimated.

Is it possible to use a glue as well as nail to secure the floor. Should I use a different nail type? I am using 8d finish nails every 6-8 inches predrilled with a 7/64" drill bit.

It is taking me over an hour to install two courses of this stuff which is around 7.5 square feet. I do not want to take almost 50-60 hours in this job and not want to be happy with the final outcome.I don't want the squeaks to get worse.

Thanks for any advice,
Greg

[Brad Noble]

>>we can not use a pnuematic nailer and each piece has to be drilled and hand nailed as it is too hard and the tongue splits off with a nailer.<<

Something is dreadfully wrong here. The nailer should work without problem. The nailer appears as though the angle is way off (not sure how this happens) and that would cause it to split the wood tongue. I wish I could be more help but this one is weird.

Brad

[Greg Ladd]

Brad,

This wood rates at over 3000 on the Janka hardness scale. I contacted the manufacturer of the nailer that I own and was told that this hardness of wood almost always forces drilling and hand nailing. I asked about using a flooring stapler and was told that a staple actually is worse in this application.

When I tried the nailer, the nail entered the wood in the exact corner of the tongue as it should have. I tried a few different air pressure settings but to no avail. The only other option is to try to raise the entrance point up so there is more wood thickness but the risk is that the 'face' will split and raise up the top of the floor.

Unfortunately, I believe I am force to drill and hand nail.

Thanks for the reply.

Greg

[Mike Cutler]

Brad,

This wood rates at over 3000 on the Janka hardness scale. I contacted the manufacturer of the nailer that I own and was told that this hardness of wood almost always forces drilling and hand nailing. I asked about using a flooring stapler and was told that a staple actually is worse in this application.

When I tried the nailer, the nail entered the wood in the exact corner of the tongue as it should have. I tried a few different air pressure settings but to no avail. The only other option is to try to raise the entrance point up so there is more wood thickness but the risk is that the 'face' will split and raise up the top of the floor.

Unfortunately, I believe I am force to drill and hand nail.

Thanks for the reply.

Greg

Greg.
I believe that you are correct.
I believe that the flooring you have, called "Brazillian Redwood", is actually "Brazillian Cherry, or "Jatoba". And I can tell you from experience it cannot be nailed without predrilling. Screwing fasteners is a whole different experience. It is a very beautiful wood, I've done a few projects with it, but it is very hard and dense.
I'm no expert on flooring but I think there is a product that is supposed to go on top of the wooden subfloor, between the sub floor and the hardwood flooring, to get rid of creaking. I remember seeing rolls of it once.
I think I'd be doing some research before you go any further.

[Ted Miller]

Greg, I cannot understand why your gun is not working correctly, 6s would work as well but 8s should be fine. I think maybe the reason you are getting noise is the nails are not seating all the way down and did you glue and screw the underlayment?...

[Jim Becker]

Did you put down rosen paper between the new flooring and the subfloor?

[Joe Chritz]

Hardwood floors have a "sound" of their own. They are not quiet like carpet but they should not squeek or thud.

If you are thinking the noise is from the floor boards moving against the subfloor then you will have to fix that before moving on. Without actually walking on it I would hazard a guess that is the problem.

I haven't worked with Jatoba in a floor setting but if the hand drive nails aren't set well it could be the problem.

Joe

[Ben Grunow]

Not to question your skills or whatever but are you toe nailing back at about 45 degree angle (with the nail starting in the corner created by the top of the tongue and the vertical edge of the board)?

The only reason I ask is because you didnt specifically say you were.

I have never seen flooring that the pneumatic floor nailers cant shoot thru.

Pics would help us help you if possible. Good luck

Ben

[Greg Ladd]

Mike,

The flooring is actually Brazilian redwood. It is rated at 3190 on the Janka scale. Brazilian cherry is rated at 2350 making the Brazilian redwood species 35% harder than the Brazilian cherry. The redwood species has a more brownish cast to my eye than the reddish cast of the cherry species.

Are you saying that the wood can be screwed down easier than nailing?

I did install a 15 lb. builders felt under the flooring to help eliminate squeaks caused by friction between the floor and the subfloor.

Ted,

The pneumatic gun is working fine. The wood simply fractures at the intersection of the tongue and the side of the flooring board. I am setting each nail deeply into side of the board with a nail set.

The underlayment, which is actually a second layer of 1/2" OSB run perpendicular to the 3/4" subfloor was glued and nailed.

Jim,

I used 15lb. builders felt which is what the retailer recommended.

Joe,

I understand that a wood floor will have a sound of its' own. Similar to set of wood covered stair treads I would think. But the sound I hear is definitely from some movement. Since I have covered the subfloor with felt I assume it isn't from the subfloor moving against the bottom of the floor.

What I am fearing is that small variations in the levelness of the subfloor are allowing the wood floor to move a tiny amount. What I don't know is if the Brazilian redwood is so hard that it 'squeaks' when 2 boards rub against each other. as the whole floor system flexes. All of the nails are well set.

Ben,

Yes I am nailing at a 45 degree angle and setting each nail like the flooring nailer would do.

The nailer did not have any problem penetrating the wood. The wood tongue simply fractured cleanly off of the bottom and side of the board along the plane that the nails were imbedded on.

Thanks everyone. I appreciate the imput but am still looking for a answer and a solution other than abandoning the wood floor idea and going back to carpet. Other than the $1800 we have invested and the 20 plus hours I have already worked trying to get this to work, I am ready to give up.

If I hadn't already opened all of the boxes and racked the flooring, I would load it all back up and take it back. The salesman told me that there were no refunds or returns because he gave me a discount of $0.20 per square foot. But at this point I would gladly take a small loss an replace it with maple that I could use the nailer on.

By the way, no one has yet commented on my question of glueing and nailing...

Greg

[Randall Davis]

I believe the nailer should be used in the groove side of the board.

[Greg Ladd]

Randall,

While I have certainly made mistakes in the past, I don't think anything I have read or seen on this subject has shown that the nail is supposed to be in the groove side of the flooring.

There would be significantly less support for the nail in that area of the flooring board as it would cut the thickness of the wood that the nail holds dramatically.

Greg