true biesemeyer 50" commercial fence vs. shop fox classic clone

[Michael Marcinelli]

does anyone have experience with both of these? i'm upgrading to 50" rails and I'm trying to find out if buying a true Biese is worth double the money over getting the 52" rail extension for my Griz 1023. is the shop fox classic close enough to a real bies or is the bies significantly better?

thx
michael

[scott spencer]

I've used both, and while I like the both, I don't think the Biese is worth twice the cost. My personal preference is for the smoother faces on the Biese, but a friend who has both fences uses the SF Classic and prefers the Classic over the Biese. Which one to go with is really a matter of preference, which sort of offers an answer the question about whether or not the Biese is worth twice the price.

[Michael Marcinelli]

thx scott for your input. are there more fence adjustments on the bies vs the SF? any micro adjustments? nothing on the SF.

how does the bies fence sit on the rail? the SF fence just rides on the steel rail with a poly strip between the two which produces enough friction so as to make it not very smooth to slide. also requires a pretty clean table to slide nicely. its pretty basic.

also, is the bies heavier, more sturdy than the SF? any other qualitative differences you can share?

[glenn bradley]

how does the bies fence sit on the rail?

First, I love my Bies but, the adjustability is about nil on the fence itself except for parralel to the blade adjustment. Vertical 90*to the table, etc. is set by proper position of the front rail height along the table top.

The Bies slides on pads similar to what you describe on the SF however, mine moves very easily. The Bies is quite heavy but I can slide it across the table / sawdust / miter slots, etc. with my pinky. I just paste wax the rails every few weeks or so.

I used to run an aluminum fence that rode front and rear and was quite light. I was very careful with it as it seemed delicate. In comparison other than the initial heft, the Bies moves just as easily. As far as sturdy, I think I could take it off, use it for a hammer and put it back on and it would still be aligned. IMHO.

Don't get me wrong, I wish it had some of the bells and whistles of the 'better than Bies' fences but it'sa great fence.

[scott spencer]

thx scott for your input. are there more fence adjustments on the bies vs the SF? any micro adjustments? nothing on the SF.

how does the bies fence sit on the rail? the SF fence just rides on the steel rail with a poly strip between the two which produces enough friction so as to make it not very smooth to slide. also requires a pretty clean table to slide nicely. its pretty basic.

also, is the bies heavier, more sturdy than the SF? any other qualitative differences you can share?

The two fences are really very similar structurally and functionally. No microadjust on either. The faces on the SF are UHMW plastic vs laminated ply on the Biese. The UHMW is more prone to "waviness", but is usually not a problem, and is machineable or shimmable if not satisfactorily flat. The SF faces are easier to replace if needed, but it'll be years (maybe decades) before wear will be an issue with the Biese unless I cut into it or damage it somehow. I don't recall the exact locking mechanism used on the SF, but the Biese uses a cam and steel foot to help distribute the pressure evenly. The rails are the same and the fences can actually be interchanged on the same set of rails. The "BIESEMEYER" logo and American flag sticker are nicer IMO...

[Kyle Kraft]

Michael,

I have a micro adjust fence on my Jet and I love it. I believe it is made for Jet by HTC. When I bought my saw the fence and rails came in separate boxes emblazoned with "Made in USA". Go to www.woodworker.com and look at the HTC Multifence Upgrade, and you'll see my Jet micro-adjust Exacta-Fence painted green and white instead of Jet vanilla and red.

No, I don't work for Jet, HTC, or WW's Supply

[Michael Marcinelli]

thx, i'll check it out.

the Incredible Shop Fox fence the Grizzly (G4722 on the Griz site) offers looks interesting. seems like a new breed commercial fence with bearings and 2 points of contact with rails (some say this isn't good). another nice feature is that the fence is slotted to fit board buddies.

anyone have any experience with this?

[Michael Marcinelli]

thx, i'll check it out.

the Incredible Shop Fox fence the Grizzly (G4722 on the Griz site) offers looks interesting. seems like a new breed commercial fence with bearings and 2 points of contact with rails (some say this isn't good). another nice feature is that the fence is slotted to fit board buddies.

anyone have any experience with this?

[Mark Engel]

The G4722 is the saw I had on my 1023Z. I got it with the 50" rails when I bought the saw.

The fence operated very smoothly. It was easily adjusted to the mitre slots and 90 deg to the table. The t-slot on top was nice since I use board buddies from time to time. It is also double sided and can be used on either side of the blade simply by moving it there.

Here is what I didn't like. That massive head on the front side the slide mechanism. The top of the head was just slightly higher than the table saw top. I could not figure out a way to lower the rails to bring it down.

Also, I use my router table as an outfeed table. Due to the back side rail and rollers on the SF I could not roll the router table flush to the back side of the saw.

Last really small gripe. The measuring tape that came with the saw was very small and hard for my bad eyes to read. I bought a 1/2" wide stick on measuring tape to replace it. Unfortunately, the locking mechanism on the SF locks onto the top of the rail and would hit the edge of the tape and nick it up pretty good. After a while that measuring tape was in need of replacement.

After living with these problems for a few years I finally decided to upgrade the fence. I ended up getting the Delta 52" Unifence and a Uni-T-Fence from Might-T-Track. With this fence I was also able to build a much larger side table.

[J.R. Rutter]

I've used Bies. fences for years, and recently got two SF fences for other saws (I'm going to modify one for my bandsaw!).

The fit and finish of the Bies is better, but they function in the same way, as others have detailed above. But the main gripe I have with the SF is the cursor and tape. The cursor has a magnifier set high enough above the tape that it is hard to get an exact reading - the line shifts from side-to-side as you move your head. The "hairline" is too thick, as are the lines on the tape. I just don't feel confident using the cursor as a repeatable final dimensioning tool. With a new cursor like the Bies. and a Starrett tape, they would be very close in performance.

[Michael Marcinelli]

yipes! those sound like substantial design flaws.

why'd you decide to go with unisaw over bies? another classic debate that i'm evaluating. bies seems more solid/sturdy but the unisaw more feature rich/versatile with it's sliding fence, etc.

over time are you happy you went with unisaw over bies?

[Justin Henry]

I've had both, loved both. Now I am back to the Uni for second time w/ the Uni-T.
Personally it was just the feel and ease for jigs on the Uni (w/ T).
You won't go wrong with either - try to use a Uni before you make a final decision would be my suggestion. Then you won't second guess or wonder in years ahead.

[Rob Blaustein]

Michael,
Maybe you mentioned this but it wasn't clear to me--are you buying a 1023 and opting for the longer rails, or do you already have the 1023 with the Shop Fox fence, and you're getting the longer rails and trying to decide if you should also get the Bies fence?

I have the 1023 with the shorter rails and find the fence quite well. It is true that the UHMW face can be a bit wavy, but as Scott points out it is readily shimmed with some tape or replaced. I replaced mine with a laminated baltic birch strip, and also often have a steel face added on that I bought with a pair of Grip Tite hold-downs. The SF fence was well reviewed a few years ago--I think in Wood mag. If going with a different fence I would go with something a lot different--like the Incra. But again, I'm happy with the SF, though haven't used a Bies.

[Bart Leetch]

But the main gripe I have with the SF is the cursor and tape. The cursor has a magnifier set high enough above the tape that it is hard to get an exact reading - the line shifts from side-to-side as you move your head. The "hairline" is too thick, as are the lines on the tape. I just don't feel confident using the cursor as a repeatable final dimensioning tool. With a new cursor like the Bies. and a Starrett tape, they would be very close in performance.

So do something about it.On my Shopfox I used a piece of plexi glass & using a scribe etched a fine line on the underside of it & filled it in using a fine sharpie pen & drilled & mounted it. It works great.

After having my Shopfox for about 2 years I converted the sides to Baltic Birch covered with laminate but it is still mounted the same way. I did make the sides just a little taller.

Just remember part of having tools & being a woodworker is making the tools fit you & how you work or in this case how you see.

The Biesmeyer & the Shopfox are mechanically the same in the way they work. My friend in whose shop I refurbished my 1940 Unisaw has a Grizzly G1023 with a commercial Biesmeyer fence. The mechanism on the fence is the same but the biesmeyer front rail is just a fraction of an inch deeper front to back. I was able to drop my fence over his front rail if I flipped the shoe that the cam tightened down against up underneath the fence.