visit to an Amish mill

[thomas prevost]

Made a delivery to a new Amish moulding mill today. All new equipment. Powermatic 20" planer, Delta 20 bandsaw. Large Delta shaper, Matheson 4 sided moulder and a Mateson molder for cutting curved stock, etc. Only difference between theirs and any other shop was instead of conduit for electricty, they ran hydrolic lines to the motors. To get around using fork trucks, They had a complex track system overhead with hydrolyic motors to move and lift the lumber, noted as I often see questions about how they run their mills without electricity and (impressive to me.)

[Don Bullock]

I wondered what they did, but can't understand why motors are OK and electricity isn't. Very interesting.

[Brad Schmid]

My folks live in Amish country in Western PA and alot of their close friends are Amish. So, when I go home to visit, we usually end up visiting with them. They all either work in mills, logging, or woodworking/cabinet shops. I can tell you this, they are creative Most of the Amish cabinet shops I see operate off of a diesel powered line shaft. They buy serious industrial machines, old iron and new, strip and sell or junk the motors, and hook them up via belts & pulleys to the line shaft that runs under the main shop floor.

The most interesting thing I think I have seen was a modern washing machine in a basement. But how did it run with no electric??? The motor was removed and the machine placed next to the basement wall then their was a shaft through the wall to outside and on the outside was a 2 cycle gas motor. I had to chuckle a bit, but it sure takes some figurin' to work out something like that.

BTW - as to their belief system and electricity - Amish folks interpret linking with electrical wires as a connection with the world - and they believe they are not to be conformed to the world. They don't shun electricity because they think electricity is evil itself, but because easy access to it could lead to temptations and the erosion of their church and family life. Similar with automobile ownership. Most are perfectly fine with riding in a car, and hiring cars and drivers, just not ownership.

[Howard Rosenberg]

If they allow electricity for one purpose, such as running electric motors on their equipment, they must allow electricity for other things.

Other things that use electricity just might contain influences contrary to their beliefs.

For them to stick with their beleifs and not make decisions on a situational basis, they feel it's best to completely eschew electricity.

My 2C.

Howard

[Mike Henderson]

If they allow electricity for one purpose, such as running electric motors on their equipment, they must allow electricity for other things.

Other things that use electricity just might contain influences contrary to their beliefs.
Howard

Especially television. They do have to make compromises in their beliefs, primarily so that they can compete in the world. For example, you always see horses pulling a harvester, but there may be a diesel engine on the harvester running the harvesting equipment. They just can't compete doing everything by hand, but even though diesel engines are permitted for some things, they aren't for pulling the harvester.

Years ago, young Amish men worked in hospitals, doing scutt work, instead of serving in the military. However, that changed a while back when the Amish found that too many of the men were becoming "wordly" and leaving the community. Many were marrying non-Amish women and it was almost impossible for an "English" woman to join an Amish community.

When looked at by outsiders, many of the beliefs of the Amish appear to be designed to keep Amish people, especially the children, from leaving the community - it's essentially community self preservation.

Mike

[Don Bullock]

Thanks for the answers. I have a dining table and chairs (beautiful Arts & Crafts design) in cherry that was made by an Amish woodworking/cabinet shop. My wife picked it out a couple of years ago and it's beautiful. In fact, it is one of the reasons I decided to get back into woodworking recently.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Also, there is no "National Order" or anything like that. The leaders of each very small church (10-15 families) make the decisions on what is accepted and not accepted. So you will see Amish families in Lancaster PA with land based phone lines, those with cell phones only and those who are prohibited from owning a phone. Also, motors are not accepted in all applications. I know one family that can use a gas powered string trimmer while the other family must go at it the old fashioned way!

[thomas prevost]

In my first post, the motors I was referring to are driven by hydrolyic fluid. These motors are commonly used in explosive conditions such as refineries and chemical plants. A propane diesel engine runs the pumps for the fluid. I have been in many Amish facilities where belt drives are used. This was a very modern facility showing they are willing to modernize within the confines of their church.

Also, one way locally that the Amish get around restrictions of tier curch is to hire non Amish labor. One large saw mill n, has a non Amish man run the lifts, loaders and tucks around the mill. Some of the major outlet stores use non Amish help so they can answer phones and take orders. Mennoites are very similar to the Amish and are often mistaken for Amish. But they are a separate religion and can use electric and drive cars.

[Tyler Howell]

Thank you,
Most interesting thread.
I've learned more about wood, WW and other ways of life in this forum in the last few years than I ever knew.
Very informative.
What's the chance of getting pix if these different types of shops ?

[David G Baker]

Tyler,
If my information is correct the Amish folks are not too keen on having their pictures taken. Don't know about their shops and equipment.
We have quite a few horse and buggies traveling the back roads a few miles from where I live in Mid Michigan. There are a few Amish sawmills within ten miles as well. I have not been inside of one yet.
It is really neat driving by agricultural areas where the Amish farm using horse drawn equipment. Some of the equipment looks like it is 100 or so years old but still works great.

[David Weaver]

I can check to see if pictures of tools are OK - pictures of people are definitely not. A friend of mine's in laws live next to an amish bachelor carpenter who comes over to watch TV every night (guess it's OK - it's not in his house). His shop is powered by a 60hp diesel engine and hydraulic motors - the equipment is otherwise modern powermatic and Delta type stuff, with the exception of a few pieces of old iron. He's not really giving up much in terms of ability to process stock quickly and accurately, and he's got no problem with talking at length about almost any topic.

What's funny is that the thing that really really bothers him is that it's difficult to harvest all of the lost thermal energy from the diesel engine. Amish folks like efficiency - waste is not part of the equation.

[Steve Evans]

Mennoites are very similar to the Amish and are often mistaken for Amish. But they are a separate religion and can use electric and drive cars.

Again, it depends on the local preacher. We have many Old Order Mennonites in our area, who are strictly horse and buggy, no electricity types. Occasionally you see one on the horse and buggy talking on the cell phone. When it comes to their business, they will do what they have to do without having the electrical hookup to the road. It might be a diesel generator, or a diesel driven compressor, hydraulic or line shaft setup. Comes down to each individual preacher.

Steve

[Nate Rogers]

Hello All,
I grew up in Amish country in Northern New York, it all really depends on the elders of the community. They make up almost all the rules, when I was a kid we purchased wood from a local Amish mill. My dad always brought the kids ice cream sandwiches, they LOVED them. As I have gotten to know them over the years they have shared some interesting views with us. One gentleman told us he hates the fact that people will purchase his goods just because a Amish man made them. He used to say I want them to buy my goods because of my craftsmanship, not because I drive a horse. He took great pride in his work, and it was pretty good from what I remember. I always admired the way they live, a very simple life, none of the headaches of the modern world. The thing is, it is just like any group of people that you view as "different", they are usually a lot more like us than we care to admit or realize.

Nate

Nate

[thomas prevost]

Tyler, As for pictures, the answer would be no, unless I found a time when no one was around. The mill is busy during the day and they do not allow pictures of themselves.

Apparently from what they have told me, what they are doing is not unique. There are many mills in Ohio that are switching over. There are a few engineering companies that specialize in the conversions for them.

Jake noted during our conversation that they do not wish to be connected to some aspects of the world. but they must be realisitc and provide products at a competive price. They also "enjoy safety". These modern hydraulic machines offer all the safety features we have without the inherrent dangers they had with belt driven machinery.

They do capture the lost heat from the diesels by putting the radiators in the building and using the return air from the cyclone dust collector through the radiators to help with the heating. They use propane as natural gas would be like electricity and they felt the propane would be environmentally better than oil.

The plant design was well thought out.

ultra clean with a massive cyclone dust collecter hooked to each machine, often at multiple locations.

Humor- they have an upside down hat on an unused dust collector vent, noting that a wayward child who do not belong in the mill got sucked in it.

[Michael Gibbons]

Hey everyone, Get this, Someone my wife knows who is not Amish started dating an Amishman who left his wife and children. He became very worldly and really enjoyed the air conditioning that she had at her place. He still works very hard, just like he was taught. I have to give the Amish credit and that is basically that nothing has changed in generations. If only the Shakers would have been able to maintain and grow membership through marriage and procreation, they would probably still be here today, but I guess that is something that made the Shakers, Shakers.