MM16 - is it just me?

[Brad Schmid]

I'll try to condense this story down.

History:

Saw is 2 yrs old with probably 4-6 hrs of total run time.

I bought it prior to the Houston Woodworking show. It was completely assembled by MM, brought to the show for display (was not ran, nor did it have a plug installed). When I got it home, the first thing I noticed was the fence was out of perpendicular with the table by 3/32" over its 4-5" height. It wasn't machined right. MM sent me a new one. Cool. Then, the table wasn't flat, even after working with MM support on the adjustments, it couldn't be made flat. They wouldn't send another, but asked me to have it machined locally and they would pay. Well, I didn't have the time to mess with it, nor did I have a local machine shop to go to, so I gave up on it and am still using it in this condition. I blame me for this one.

Fast forward to a few months ago: I start having problems with the electrical switch. The "on" pushbutton sticks in and won't come back out unless I disassemble the switch and pull it out. I submit a request through the MM website and I got a call back within a day saying to take apart the switch and clean it. Ok, so I do that. It works 2-3 more times. I go to use it 2 weeks ago, and the switch sticks again. I take it apart, clean it (fyi - there was never any visible dirt or dust in there, ever), this time I can't get the dumb thing to even come back out again. So, I call MM support again, nobody answers, I leave a message, I get no call back. I wait 3 days. I call again, this time I ask for a specific individual whom I've worked with before (sales and support). He is there and we hash through the whole thing. We both agree there's a mechanical problem with the switch. He says my problem is because I don't use the saw enough. I say ok, fine, I'm sick of messing with this thing and I'm not about to tear the switch apart every time I want to use it. Is there another option? He says yes, there's a newer switch that's better but I'll have to buy it. Worn out by now, I say ok, tell me how much and lets order. Well, I need to get in touch with "MM parts" for that, ok no problem, he takes my number and says they'll call me with the info and I can order over the phone. Great. fast forward 4 business days, I receive no call...

Mind you, I probably could be a little upset, but I'm not, and never conveyed as such either. I just want the thing to work when I need it.
What does it take? Is it just me? All I want is for it to work when I need it....

BTW - switch doesn't work because I don't use it enough? I don't think I buy it... I think it's a cheap switch. I've never had this problem with anything else.

Any advice?
Also, anybody have any problems with these new switches?

Assuming I can find somebody at MM to finally order the new version switch for me, I hope it eliminates my problems...

[Doug Shepard]

...
BTW - switch doesn't work because I don't use it enough? I don't think I buy it... I think it's a cheap switch. I've never had this problem with anything else.
....

That sounds pretty lame to me. There's been quite a number of WW forum posts regarding bad swtch problems. I went through the same thing, but mine had electrical issues as well. A replacement switch finally solved the problem but I cross my fingers a bit every time I turn it on.

...
He says yes, there's a newer switch that's better but I'll have to buy it.
....

They ought to send one of these free of charge to every MM BS owner. It stinks that you cant even get one by paying for it. Hope their CS gets it together. I think I recall a couple other posts in the last few months that suggest they're slipping some in that area.
Hope they get you fixed up soon.

[Howie French]

Brad, sorry I can't be of any real help, I don't think I would have been so willing to accept, "...problem is you don't use it enough" I have gone periods of a few months without turning my mm16 on and off,never a issue.

Between not returning phone calls and telling you.. "you need to purchase a newer switch" (and oh btw, "the switch is better" umh, wonder why they went with a better switch ?), I think their customer service is going in the
wrong direction.

good luck, hope all turns out ok

Howie

[scott spencer]

That sounds like poor service to me, and is not typical of what I normally hear about MM. I'd email them a link to this thread and invite them to participate in the discussion....it'd be interesting to see how they deal with it, and hopefully beneficial for everyone. Nothing wrong with a little persuasion to do what's right.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Brad, I had the exact same story as you and like you had a table that wasn't flat. They sent me another and it wasn't flat. So I feel your pain there. They also gave me the same offer on grinding the table. I called MANY places but they all wanted way more than the $100 MiniMax offered.
So like you, I never had it done as I just couldn't find anybody to do it.

Then one day I used my saw and it kept shutting off on me. I have one of the original poorly designed switches but I was able to get it working by turning a small dial inside the switch. If I recall correctly it had something to do with amperage through the switch. I agree they should have replaced all these bad switches gratis.

So my story is very much like yours and I can certainly sympathise. I don't know why this company has such a good reputation here or anywhere else. I paid a lot of money like you and have never been satisfied with the saw. I think MiniMax is WAY overrated on their quality and service. At least that's my experience and isn't it funny that yours is the same? If you have the time just keep at it if you can stand it. I think I'll sell mine and use another company for another. If you you bought a Honda and it was defective would you buy another? If they couldn't/wouldn't fix it, would you buy another? I don't think they deserve any repeat business.

Sorry for this rant everybody but this post just hit a nerve. Maybe this will save somebody else some pain and misery with this company.

Oh, and I have never had this much trouble with any other of my tools in my fairly well equpped shop.

Good luck with your problems. Alan

[John Scane]

I have a MM20 and when I got it about 3 years ago I had several problems. One of them was a bad switch which was replaced by MM. The other and far worse was a problem with "blade wobble" ( I posted about it when it happened so you can do a search of my posts to read about it ) Anyway the customer support was great and they even sent out a rep to help me fix it.....
My saw works OK but I feel it was not worth the money I spent. To this day there is still a lot of front to back movement with every blade I use. This is really only a problem when I want smooth cuts............LOL

If I had to do it over I would probably look at other machines.

My 2 cents

[Doug Mason]

I have had similar problems. My MM16 is cutting great now--but I doubt I'll ever order from MM again due to what they have put me through (rust, out-of sq table, 85 degree fence, etc!).

[Phil Thien]

Wow. I will never buy MM products until I see more favorable posts about their quality and support. Stuff like this really bugs me.

[Roy Wall]

This is a disturbing post.....

I feel the machines should run 20 years @ 10 hrs a day till something gives. They are marketed as reliable, durable machines.

I see from their point of view the saw is technically out of warranty - thus the payment for a new switch. However, it is well documented this saw has a HISTORY of elec. problems (including the switch) and I wish MM would view this as a "recall item" and provide owners with problems a new switch at no charge. I know that's a LOT of MM16's.....but if they are defective from the factory....that's not right....IMHO. These are expensive band saws.

Perhaps the Mother Ship across the ocean is binding the hands in Austin?

I'd give em' another call....go to Jim Strand...President of MM...and see if this issue can be settled.

Brad - keep us posted please.

[Juan Rivera]

Hello Brad,

Here's a list of all the quality problems that came with my MM16 (new version 4.8hp) 2 years ago:

1. Broken pallet which bent the brake pedal.
2. Wired from factory with 12 gauge wiring instead 10 gauge as they claimed the machine requires.
3. Improperly sized switch (20A vs 25A required) which burnt out after
three startups.
4. Motor labeled for less than marketed horsepower which they claim was an improper label.
5. Table was dished more than double their allowed tollerances.

Since I reacted under the warranty period and threatened to return my machine I got another table from an older model (still fits) that was dished half as much. I got a new switch rated for 25A and I got a new label with the proper power rating .

This is to much work for a machine that cost this much money.

If you find a solution to your table please advise.

Regards,

Juan

[Montgomery Scott]

I've had my MM16 since the end of 2005. I have yet to have any problems with the saw. The worst thing about it was the microswitch for the foot brake was slightly misadjusted when it arrived but a few turns of the wrench fixed it. Never had a problem with the switch, though I know it's been a problem for many. Table was very flat. It's cut everything I've thrown at it including 12" thick madrone. Based on my experience with the machine and the technical department I would easily buy it again, though their combo machines are much to expensive for me to justify buying .

[Brad Schmid]

I've read lots of problems with the switches over the past 2 yrs, but I see it goes beyond that. Unfortunately I see the theme coming together here in this thread.

Thank you all for your responses and suggestions. Like me, I think you guys are reasonable in your expectations and placed your trust in well respected (at least at one time) machine and distibutor. It's too bad things are turning out like they are... I'm just glad I kept my little 14" Griz bandsaw as a backup. Sad.

Roy - I will take your advice and call and ask for Jim Strand tomorrow. I absolutely hate to have to take my time to escalate to MM management to get something like this solved that could be taken care of by a good sales or customer service department.

Montgomery - I don't think you'll find too many people that are dissatisfied with the way the saw cuts (although it seems John does have problems), if you can get it tuned, running and keep it running... I'm sure we all hope you never have any of these problems.

Parting thought: To many of us, our time is far more valuable than the initial cost of a tool purchase. I want to buy a machine, be able to use it when I need it, and forget about it otherwise. It's why I was willing to part with a sizeable amount of money (to me) to buy this tool. I wonder if one can actually expect to find this anymore I didn't get the peace of mind I thought I was buying.

[Bob Luciano]

May I suggest you send them an email or certified letter stating you are going to list your complaints with Epinions I have done that with problem vendors so far works everytime hope this helps

[Brian Gumpper]

WOW, disturbing post is right. I haven't really tuned up my MM16 since I got it late last year so I better do that and get my own list going if need be.

[Chris McKimson]

The MM16 has been my dream small shop bandsaw for quite a while now. Fortunately, this thread woke me up before I ordered one.

Chris