DNA and food safety

[Tim Fitzgibbon]

I am a newbie and perhaps this has been discussed in a forum that I missed. DNA as we all know is ethanol that has been made unfit for consumption. Methanol used to be added but now it is anybody's guess. Most of what is added, like the ethanol readily evaporates.

My concern is that because the other 10% is largely unregulated, no one knows what other crap might be in there. By definition, denatured alcohol is not food safe. So does everyone trust that the chemical industry isnt putting crap in there to get rid of it? Could there be carcinogens and other toxins that might get left behind after the volatile stuff is gone. How small of a percentage of some toxin can be added before it has to be on the label?

There is good reason for instance why the pottery industry does not put glazes containing heavy metals on surfaces of vessels that would typically be in contact with food. For similar food safe reasons, and especially because I don't know what else is in that DNA, I am hesitant to use it. Does anyone have any information on this?

I did a Google search on denatured alcohol. I found the following link at the top of the page:

www.JamestownDistributors.com Pure denatured alcohol in stock! Great for cleaning and cooking.

I love the 'Great for cooking' part. Must add that extra zip to the salad dressing. Who could have guessed that you could go blind from eating salad! Instead of rum we could have DNA cake.

Thanks,
Tim

[Barbara Gill]

Isn't denatured alcohol used in an alcohol stove (cooking)?

[Adam Howard]

Once the volatiles have left, anything treated with denatured alcohol should be quite safe.
Denatured alcohol is mostly pure ethanol that has had some methyl alcohol or isopropyl alcohol added so it cannot be consumed by humans. All those alcohols are quite volatile and should be completely gone by the time the bowl blank is dry.

The chemical industry is very regulated, and businesses that use denatured alcohol are VERY sensitive about what goes into it. Personally, I don't worry about it, and use denatured alcohol anytime the project requires. DNA is also the base solvent used in shellac.

While contamination is always possible, I can speak from experience that these products are under close scrutiny. I work in the chemical industry in lab testing, and routinely profile the organic makeup of the products we make, as well as competitive materials.

Best regards.

[Jason Roehl]

All the DNA I've seen has had "stove fuel" as an alternate use on its label. As such, I put a little in a cup under one of those charcoal chimneys to light my grill. The alcohol burns hotter and is more volatile than lighter fluid, and doesn't leave behind any nasty flavors. But, in liquid form, it IS poisonous so that it cannot be taxed by your local excise officials. If it were pure ethanol, then it would be $40/gallon (Everclear even isn't quite "pure" and not appropriate for thinning shellac because of the high water content--5%) instead of $10/gallon (DNA) because of excise taxes.

[Tim Fitzgibbon]

Thanks for the responses. Never used an alcohol stove so didn't think of it from that angle for 'cooking'. I stick to white gas in the coleman and the whisperlite stoves.

Thanks again.

[Dennis Peacock]

Tim,

Like the finishes you'll use on your turnings...once cured they are food safe. DNA is the same way.

[Paul Bombardt]

I couldn't help jumping in on this one. Sorry for the excess detail here. I think the Pure Denatured Alcohol is a misrepresentation of the term 'Completely Denatured Alcohol (CDA)', which according to the Tax-Free Alcohol Act of 1906, contains 'sufficient malodorous and obnoxious constituents to prevent completely its use or recovery for beverage purposes'. There are at least 20 approved formulas for CDA by the IRS. Note that Specially Denatured Alcohol (SDA) has about 50 authorized formulas. SDA #1 is to add 5% methanol. Other formulas contain acetaldehyde, ethyl propionate and ethylamines.

As mentioned in a previous post, once the volatiles are gone, it should not present a safety issue. Since the denaturants are either malodorous or obnoxious, I would do a sniff test before employing it for use. Some drying reactions are actually polymerizations, such as with paint, and these can take some period of time to complete. Let's not forget the lessons from sprayed in foam insulation when outgassing in homes continued for months and years. Chemistry is a wonderful thing, but one needs to be informed and cautious.

[Adam Howard]

So I happened to have some DNA at home, fresh off the shelf, and decided to see what was in it. It's what I do...

I performed a GC/MS analysis to see the organic components. See the linked pdf file. I won't go into the tech stuff too much, but the technique only sees the volatile organics.

In short, I found a collection of hydrocarbons, mostly heptanes. Acetone might be present (but I used it in my sampling system, so can't say for sure). The denaturing components were Methanol, Isopropanol, and 4-methyl-2-pentanone, or MIBK (a common solvent). There was a very small trace of toluene.

I can't say where I purchased this material for legal/ethical/business reasons, but will say that it is representative of the DNA that I am sure many of us use.

http://www.fineamericancraft.com/dna.pdf

There wasn't anything that I found in the sample that would be harmful once evaporated. All these chemicals are quite volatile and will go away on their own rather quickly, certainly by the time the blank is dry and ready to finish turning.

[Curt Fuller]

I got wondering about why they make DNA so that it's not fit for human consumption. If regular old alcohol would do the trick then what's the purpose of denatured alcohol. So I read a few things on the internet and it turns out that the main reason for the denaturing of alcohol is to avoid paying the tax on the alcohol that can be consumed by humans. Now I know. I know this really doesn't have much to do with this original thread but someone else might have wondered the same thing.

[Jason Roehl]

Curt, all you had to do was read my post above: "...so that it can't be taxed by local excise officials..."