Buying a house, Aluminum Wiring?

[David Eisan]

Hello everyone,

I put in an offer on a house last week (one with enough room for all my tools!). One of the conditions was insurance. I have run into a little bit of a problem. My Insurance company wants an electrician to certify in writing that everything is "safe".

Anyone know how I get this done? The offer clock is ticking...

Who has had problems with their insurance agent with regards to aluminum wiring, and how did things work out?

Thanks,

David.

[Bill Huber]

I sold my house in Fort Worth, Tx. 2 years ago and I had to have an electrical contract come in and pigtail all of the outlets and switches in the house. Now this was a condition of the sale after the buyer had it inspected, not a code thing.
The cost was not bad and I did some of it myself as a helper.

The house was 40 years old and I lived in it for 22 of that and never had one problem with it.

The electrician had twist on caps with a jell in them and precut copper wire that we pigtailed on everything.

[Tom Cowie]

Aluminum wire has a bad habit of heating up which causes fire. This is normally because of an overload condition. Mid 70's house trailers seem to have a lot of it.
Copper is a much better conductor and handles greater current for the same size wire.

Tom

[thomas prevost]

Don't know about My notehrn neighbors, but here in NY State we have licensed electrical inspectors. Call the Code enforcement office in your community and find out who does these inspections.

[Peter Pedisich]

David,

The US Consumer Product Safety Commission has done much research in the 1970's and 80's and consider only one method to be a "safe and permanent fix" for Aluminum wiring.

It's called the COPALUM crimp method, and you'll find info on the web about it.

Good Luck,

Pete

[Randy Denby]

David, There is a compound you can apply to stop/slow down oxidation at each terminal. Its called penetrox.(sp?) But....you are going to have a problme finding anyone to sign off on aluminium wire and call it "safe". Your insurance will probably be very high. You would be better off rewiring and will should save money over the long haul on insurance cost.....as well as peace of mind. Aluminium wire is generally replaced because of fire hazard potential.

Just noticed the post above,copalum sounds like a good solution. But, depending on house size, thee is probably hundreds of connections to pigtail. And your insurance may still be high. If it was me..and my family, I'd still rewire to copper.

[Don Bullock]

.. My Insurance company wants an electrician to certify in writing that everything is "safe".

...

David, I would think that you'd want the same cirtification before the sale goes through. Many homes have burned due to aluminum wiring. As has been stated, the wiring overheats. It's not something to try to ignore. Here is a link to a news story about the problem:

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/...58/detail.html

Here's another website with a lot of information and links:

http://www.paccrestinspections.com/aluminum.htm

[Jim O'Dell]

I had always understood the problem with the aluminum wiring was the heating and cooling of the wire in use cause the wire to expand and contract and the joints to loosen, causing more resistance, more heat and possible fires. I have a friend who has aluminum wiring in her house and the connection at the hot water heater burned. Lucky it didn't catch the house on fire. I went to see if I could help with why there was no hot water thinking it was the elements, and found that in the junction box on top of the heater. I told her I couldn't help with that, she needed and electrician. Twist caps were melted into a puddle.
I'd personally think twice about purchasing the house, unless you can get such a deal on it that you can afford to rewire it, or make it a condition of the sale. Jim.

[Bob Michaels]

David, I emphatically agree with the above posters. Bottom line, I wouldn't buy any house with aluminum wiring, unless the price was adjusted to compensate me very well for replacing all branch circuit aluminum wiring AND I would want to have it done before I slept there one night. This may sound a little extreme but I know just enough not to trust the stuff.

[Ben Grunow]

I think alum wires are oversized to compensate for the poor condutivity of the stuff. This means working with larger wires whenever any electrical work is required. Not 14ga for 15 amps etc. Not a biggie but I think it is true.

[Ryan Myers]

Well you can call an electric contractor to inspect the wiring, but you'll never get a statement saying it is "safe." I do these inspections for realtors frequently, whenever I come across aluminum wiring I will not OK it. I will only make remarks such as "wiring appears fine, but complete replacement is suggested"

Not only does it have major problems with expansion and contraction (causing issues with splices), it also has a lower melting point then copper. Which when you have a direct short, it can cause the wire to meltdown. Another problem is you cannot adapt copper to it because of galvanic reaction which cause oxidation and loosening of the terminals. Aluminum is fine for service conductors, but nothing else.

My suggestion would be to put in an offer that accounts for the expense of rewiring the property. Or run as fast as you can from this property. Sorry to rain on your parade.

[Clint Winterhalter]

David,
I bought a house in 1995 with Aluminum wiring. When they did the home inspection everyone turned and looked at me when they pulled the cover off of the electrical panel. You could tell they HOPED I didn't know what the problems could be. Unfortunately for them I oversaw 17 hardware stores at the time and knew all about the aluminum wire issue. I beat several thousand dollars more out of the owner and bought the place. (Knowing that I was going to have to spend some cash down the road.)

I"m not sure how it works up north, but in Ohio my insurance was the same as a house with copper wire.

A good electrician should be able to inspect the house and make sure it doesn't suffer from "Handy-Man" electrical work. Everyones comments are right, about overloading circuits. DON"T DO IT!

The electrician should also make sure the wires on all switches / outlets are connected to the screws not pushed into the quick connects. The wires can expands due to heat, and can loosen more easily if in the quick connects.

When you replace a switch / plug you need to buy the ones rated CO/ALR to avoid the corrosion / heat build up issue. You can get normal switches / plugs cheap .59 .89 etc. The CO/ALR things were $6.00+ the last time I bought one. If your house doesn't have these already you might want to get them put in. You can also get wire nutz that have a non-dielectric grease that will keep the reaction between the copper wire in a light fixture and the aluminum wire in the wall under control. GB sells tubs of the grease you cans use with normal wire nutz.

Like I said I knew I had some expenses coming:

Added a jacuzzi.. Needed a new panel / service upgrade (More a question of not enough juice in the existing panel / no spots etc)

A rewire of the house was going to run more that I wanted to spend $10K plus.

I opted for a COP-Alum conversion. AMP makes a special knurled connector that is put on with a special clamping machine. They basically connected a copper pigtail with the connector. I had a team of electricians swarm the house for 5 days. Part of the package with the pigtail installation was they took out and replaced every plug / switch / rehung every light fixture. I gave them a couple of new ones to swap out while they had the old ones down. I had them fix a bunch of handyman electrical work the prior owner did. $3800. The work was done by an electrical contractor in Cinci that specializes in Aluminum wiring. It wasn't the Funnest money I've every spent, but I bought this place knowing that I would have a harder time selling it if I didn't. I've been in the house 12 years and its nearly doubled in value so I don't regret it.. Hopefully you'll have a similar experience.

Good Luck with your purchase!
Clint

[fRED mCnEILL]

My house has Al wiring and during the past 20 years I have had a few "problems"-mostly with connections that had gone "bad" Not only did they use Al wire then but also the "push" in connection on the switches/plugs. ALL electricials HATE those connectors whether Al or copper as they are notorious for problems. I don't even think the push ins are available anymore.

But you can buy special maretts to use with a non-dielectic grease to make a copper to Al pigtale that you can use with regular switchs/plugs. I did this on all mine. THEN I discovered that they make a plug and switch specifically for AL. Two problems-they are pricey and they are the old style. But my wife wanted the new style anyway.

Of course there are horror stories about Al wire. And lots of people like to perpetuate the scare by saying things like "if it was my family". Instead of that read the info on the net about Al wire. There is good info that basically says as long as you use one of the two approved methods and your wiring is in good shape you shouldn't have a problem.There are about a gazillion homes built with Al wire in North America.Don't know about Europe.

But at least you have all the info and then its your decision.

FredM

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

My Insurance company wants an electrician to certify in writing that everything is "safe"..

They want someone else on the hook. Unless there is some reason for this I'd get another insurance company.
What is the name of the company?

Have you had a house fire?

[Steve Hayes]

In the Dallas, TX area there was a home builder by the name of Fox&Jacobs and all they would use was aluminum wiring. Some of the worst homes ever built.