Terms of Service Compliance

[Ken Salisbury]

There are still quite a few folks whose registered names are not in compliance with the SMC Terms of Service. If you registered without supplying a real first and last name you are not a bona fide member of SMC and therefor, not eligible for some of the benefits like Free Give Aways, use of the Classified Forum plus other benefits.

When people who are not in compliance post in the PT Forum I send either a PM or an e-mail and request the information so their registration can be updated. I really shouldn't have to do that.

Please -- if you have not supplied a real first and last name either PM me or e-mail me that information. It would be a big help and take some of the burden off of "The Old Rebel"

Thanks in advance

[Rob Russell]

If you registered without supplying a real first and last name you are not a bona fide member of SMC and therefor, not eligible for some of the benefits like Free Give Aways, use of the Classified Forum plus other benefits.

Ya know Ken,

It seems to me that, if the forum rules are "register with real first and last name", then the enforcement of the rules should be as such.

The "benefits" you refer to may not matter to everyone and, therefore, may not be enough to entice those folks who don't want to use a real name to register accordingly.

Still, it kinda gets old to see your moderator notice about the first/last name thing. I'm sure it's way older for you to post it than it is for us to read it.

I'm not arguing with the rule(s). The forum owners pay for SMC and are free to set whatever rules they want. There have been folks before who said "I'm not using a real name because insert reason here " and that's their perogative.

So - if the rules are that one must have a "real" first and last name to register, why not make the registration process a verified one, where you - or any of the moderators - verifies a registration before someone can post. That way it's done upfront and you never need to worry about getting after people to change their registration. I'm part of other forums where it works this way.

Either that, or accept the fact that some people will never give you a real first and last name unless you literally force them to.

Just a thought.

Rob

[Keith Outten]

Another Thought!

When I did the drawing for $440.00 worth of Festool equipment the first three names drawn were not real names, the forth name drawn was a properly registered member.

Several people tried to purchase the MicroJigs from our web store that were not registered members of SawMill Creek, or they were not properly registered and we couldn't find them in the database. We refused to fill their orders.

Remember that our members decided that they prefered using real names...not the Administrators.

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

It is really quite simple Rob. If you want to be a member of what I think is the best Woodworking Forum on the Internet, with what I consider to be some of the finest folks you will ever come across, you should abide by the Terms of Service Rules. Our Moderators, and Administrators, give of their valuable time FREELY, and they shouldn't have to keep reminding those who have not registered appropriately to do so. So, either you register using your proper name, or you don't. If you do...............you can enjoy all the benefits of being a member of Sawmill Creek........and if you don't..........yer outta here. I understand that some folks do not want to use their real name, for whatever reason, but just check out some forums on the Internet that allow users to use aliases............the nonsense that goes on in almost everyone of those situations is beyond belief. Just my 2 cents worth........which is worth just about that!

[Ron Meadows]

How about the obvious solution? Make people register to be able to post. Most nicknames are single word blurbs...if there's an easy way in the software to verify that at least a 2 word "name" has been entered it would at least kill most of the offenders....maybe a message box could pop up for invalid registration or the like referring to the forum rules.


Just my $0.02,

Ron

[Ken Salisbury]

Either that, or accept the fact that some people will never give you a ;real first and last name unless you literally force them to.

Just a thought.
Rob

Rob,

we do not "force" anyone to comply with the real first & last name rule. The following is a excerpt from the Terms of service:

"If, after investigation, SawMill Creek has reasonable grounds to suspect that any Member's information is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, SawMill Creek may suspend or terminate that Member's account and prohibit any and all current or future use of our forums (or any portion thereof) by that individual other than as expressly provided"
herein.

In the event a person refuses to provide that information after numerous requests by the staff then that person's membership is terminated.

why not make the registration process a verified one, where you - or any of the moderators - verifies a registration before someone can post. That way it's done upfront and you never need to worry about getting after people to change their registration. I'm part of other forums where it works this way.

It is my understanding that the vBulletin software does not allow us that option - but Aaron (our software guru)would have to answer that point.

The "benefits" you refer to may not matter to everyone and, therefore, may not be enough to entice those folks who don't want to use a real name to register accordingly.

Whether the benefits are important to the member is not the point. The point is the Terms of Service must be abided to by all members. That is why we have them. The general membership was involved with not only the decision to use real names but also with other provisions of the terms.

Still, it kinda gets old to see your moderator notice about the first/last name thing. I'm sure it's way older for you to post it than it is for us to read it.

It doesn't get any older for you than it does for me - (believe me). If all the members would take the time to review the Terms of Service and comply with those then I wouldn't have to make such posts. If everyone followed the rules then these posts will disappear and I will have more shop time

[Dave Arbuckle]

Ken wrote: SawMill Creek may suspend or terminate that Member's account

Maybe I completely misunderstood what Rob wrote, so I will just speak for myself.

Why don't you?

Instead of repeated "sticky" notes on the screen, notify the offending party once or twice. If they will not respond, term the account. That would be my vote if this were a poll, SMC rules aren't vague or difficult enough to have to cajole people into compliance IMO.

Dave

[Rob Russell]

First, I agree with the Terms of Service that say we need a real first and last name. Hey - if I'm gonna put my foot in my mouth, I don't feel the need to hide behind a nickname. I'm big enough to take any abuse I get for being out of line.

I think Dave put it best and really gets at the heart of what I was trying to say.

If them's the Terms of Service, enforce them. Otherwise they're just guidelines.

I haven't tried it, but I've gotta believe that someone can browse posts without being a member.

"You" want to lurk? Fine. "You" want to post? Real first and last name, please. Whether it was the forum owners or forum members who decided that the Terms were to include names doesn't really matter that much (I'd forgotten that it was the members). If "you" don't like those terms, "you" can decide not to register and lurk for as long as you like (assuming that anonymous lurking works).

Rob (registered with a real first and last name and happy to do so).

PS -

If everyone followed the rules then these posts will disappear and I will have more shop time.

Ken - I may be getting old, but I'm not that that slow yet. Come on, we all know that would mean more time for 12 oz curls!!!

[Ken Salisbury]

Ken wrote: SawMill Creek may suspend or terminate that Member's account
Why don't you?
Instead of repeated "sticky" notes on the screen, notify the offending party once or twice. If they will not respond, term the account. That would be my vote if this were a poll, SMC rules aren't vague or difficult enough to have to cajole people into compliance IMO.

Dave

Notifying them a couple times is exactly what we do in most cases and nuking them if we receive a negative response.

The sticky posts are done hoping people will take it on themselves to submit the name information without having to notify them via PM or E-mail. Moderating chores take up enough time as it is without having to spend an untold amount of time sending PM's and E-mails to offenders. Maybe some member would like to assume that responsibilty (e-mail or PM every person who posts with a invalid name. (Think about it! ! !).

As an example I checked all PT Forum posts late last night and the new posts made since 10:00pm (only a period of 7 hours on a slow Sunday night) reveal 2 posters with aliases/handles. This is a daily occurance and I am sure we can do better. Members are welcome to remind posters on their own when/if they respond to a post where the poster is not using a valid name.

Don't get me wrong, I am definitely not complaining about having to Moderate the forum - actually I enjoy doing that. I am just trying to make the job a little easier. SMC is a great family of woodworkers and the best WW Forum on the internet. I would like it to continue as such. It is just my way of paying back for the benefit I get personally from SMC.

Like Dave Arbuckle said "Ken - I may be getting old, but I'm not that that slow yet. Come on, we all know that would mean more time for 12 oz curls!!!" -- How True ! ! !

[Kevin Gerstenecker]

Ken,

In light of all that is happening, I would like you to change my last name to my given name, which is Gerstenecker. I have used my "Shortened" version of my last name since I have been a member of SMC. My intention was not to hide anything or deceive........besides that, most all the "Veteran Members" know of this already. After all, with a last name like "Gerstenecker".............who wouldn't want to shorten it?
Actually, I have been called "Gersty" by my friends all of my life, as has most members of my family. Thanks Ken, I appreciate all you do here..........if you could take care of this little thing for me, I would appreciate it!

Gersty

(I just had to use it one more time!)

[Ted Shrader]

Ken,

In light of all that is happening, I would like you to change my last name to my given name, which is Gerstenecker. I have used my "Shortened" version of my last name since I have been a member of SMC.
Gersty

And here I just thought it was G-11 !!

Ted