Bowl Size vs. Bowl Gouge Size?

[Rob Leslie]

I'm just getting started turning bowls. So far, they're all in the 3"-5" dia. range. I'm having a heck of a time getting the bottom of the bowls as deep as I'd like, while trying to maintain the inside wall shape close to the outside wall shape. I'm primarily using an Ellsworth 5/8" bowl gouge, which I keep sharp with the Ellsworth Jig on a Wolverine system.

Should I be using a smaller bowl gouge for this size range of bowls, or is it merely a matter of "more practice"? I have Bill's DVDs and they are very helpful. My lathe is a 3520B with a huge/long tool rest, so I'm not getting much of the rest inside the bowl when turning the inside.

I will post pics once I get some finish on the first few bowls (so far: Sycamore, Maple, Mahogany, Mesquite).

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Rob

[Mike Vickery]

I usually would use a 3/8th on that size bowl.

[Bernie Weishapl]

I agree with Mike. Use a 3/8" bowl gouge on smaller bowls. If your sides are thin and the bottom is still thick concentrate on the bottom portion until they are about the same thickness. A scraper will work also concentrating again just on the bottom. Be careful and don't make a pretty funnel. I have been known to do that once or twice. Just keep measuring. Then go back to the rim and make a final cut or two. Not a expert by any means but that is what I do in your case.

[Peter Hyde]

I watched the Jimmy Clews DVD and he points out that a steep conventional grind is beneficial when cutting the bottom and at the point where it meets the sides. I personally don't use an Irish (Ellsworth) grind and after watching the DVD I think I might try it. I have hollowed as deep as 7" with a 1/2" Henry Taylor long and strong bowl gouge with a conventional grind and had no problems.
I hope this helps.

[Curt Fuller]

I use one and only one bowl gouge no matter what the bowl size is. I think the biggest reason for bigger gouges is the mass makes it so you can be more aggressive and remove wood faster when you're roughing. Also you can reach a little farther out over the tool rest with a bigger gouge and still be somewhat safe. If you're doing some detail work then a smaller gouge works better for fine detail. But mostly you just get comfortable with certain tools over time and use the ones you like.

[Reed Gray]

Personally, I like the bigger gouges. If I can get them inside the bowl, then they work for me, but again, I did concrete work for 30 years, and tend to like things over built. You can still take dainty cuts with them, and they are better for reaching out off the tool rest. You may want to get a curved tool rest for both the inside and outside of the bowls, they fit better, and you don't have to move the rest as much. If you want detail work, then use the smaller gouges. When I get into details, I use a small spindle gouge.
robo hippy

[joe greiner]

Aside from speed of excavation (larger gouge -> faster cutting), another factor is the shape of the wall-to-bottom transition. Sharper transition benefits from a smaller gouge. More gradual transition, i.e. larger fillet radius, can use a larger gouge. My 2 cents worth.

Joe

[William Bachtel]

This is all going to work out, with practice. Welcome to turning.

[Christopher K. Hartley]

Rob, you may have already tried this but are you angling the end of the tool rest to just past the center inside of the bowl? It may be, from what you say, that the tool rest has a height, that compared to the bowl opening, is limiting you. If that is the case, you may also want to consider a smaller tool rest as well as the gouges. Even with a bigger gouge you will still have the problem of keeping the cutting edge steady if you are extended too far beyond the tool rest. Let me also add that I have found round nose scrapers to be ideal for what you are trying to do. Also, if a sharper bottom edge is desired than a flat scraper will work well. Welcome to the Creek and the emptying of your wallet.

[Jim Becker]

I use my 1/2"~5/8" Ellsworth gouges for anything they will fit in, large or small. I only go to a small gouge when I don't have the choice due to clearances.

[Dennis Peacock]

I use a 5/8" gouge for roughing and rarely use it for finish turning. I normally use a 3/8" and a 1/4" bowl gouge for about 95% of the turning I do. A 3/8" gouge is one of my favorite sizes to use.
Some only have one size....but it's honestly not the tool that's making you not get to the bottom of the bowl....It's the turner. I know, I R 1.

Try this....stop the lathe, place your bowl gouge on the toolrest and push it until it touches the bottom of the bowl. By sight, line up both edge of the bowl rim and place your thumb at where this line visually crosses the gouge. Transfer this to the outside of your bowl to get you closer to where you want to be.

[Robert McGowen]

The only thing I use on the inside of bowls is a round nose scraper. I'm sure that this information will be very helpful!

[Rich Souchek]

Rob,
You got almost every answer available the above posts. Guess the real answer is we use whatever we have that works and we are comfortable with. Each lathe, gouge, turner, toolrest, etc is different ans works together differently. Keep trying till you find something that works for you.
One of the best helps is a turning partner,or other turning club members. Where do you live and know any other turners up there?
That said, on the same lathe, I use a 1/2 gouge to rough the bowls out and then go to a tried and true 3/8" guoge that likes me. It always seems to give me better finishing and shape defining cuts that other gouges. And scapers do have their place also.
Rich S.

[Bill Grumbine]

Hi Rob

There are a lot of things going on here that will determine the correct tool for the job. I use a 1/2" bowl gouge for as much as I possibly can, but there are times when I need to reach for something else. The narrower and deeper your bowl it, the more trouble you are going to have as you get deeper into it. Part of the problem is the size of the gouge and tool rest as they relate to the opening available. Part of it is how far you can hang any particular gouge over the edge of the rest before you start to get unacceptable vibration. Yes, there is acceptable vibration.

The idea is to keep the gouge as close to center of the bowl and keep vibration to a minimum. A larger gouge will hang further over the edge, but as the bottom gets narrower, it gets in its own way. Switching to a smaller gouge allows you to get further in, but it starts to vibrate sooner and cause more problems.

There are three main solutions. First is practice. As you gain experience and confidence, you will be able to hang the tool further over the edge with better results and less stress. Second is a different type of tool rest for when the bowls get even deeper. A round rest that is offset will get a lot further into a narrow bowl than the wide ones that usually come with a lathe. This is a great option, but does not substitute for practice. Well, it does, but then you lose that edge you could be building up to go even further.

Finally there is the scraper solution as Robert mentioned. When they get really deep, a scraper is the best way to get at the wood and get it cut well. I prefer to use a teardrop scraper mounted to a hollowing tool. It gives me lots more reach so that I can finish off the bottom of deep bowls like the one below. It is about 5 1/2" in diameter and 11" or 12" high.



Of course, when you get to ones like this, you are going to need a steady rest too. Good luck with it.

Bill

[Reed Gray]

I will second (or third) the advice on getting bowl tool rests (curved) to use rather than the straight ones that come with the lathe. They fit the work better. For getting the bottom of the bowl, I have a couple of different ways to do it. On larger bowls, the tool rest and the bowl rim, and the handle of the gouge (especially when the gouge has been ground short from years of use) get in the way of going all the way to the bottom of the bowl, I have a special bottom of the bowl gouge that I use. It is ground to a steep angle, about 80 degrees, and the front profile is similar to a spindle roughing gouge, except that the front isn't square (straight across) but ground back about 3/32 on a 3/4 inch wide gouge. This allows you to ride the bevel, and doesn't have the wings standing straight up which will catch, which is why you never use a spindle roughing gouge on the inside of a bowl. I also use my scrapers, mostly a one with a quarter round profile, at a shear angle, with the point down. You can get clean cuts across the bottom and through the transition this way. The swept back grind is good for getting down the sides, and I will roll it more on its side to go across the bottom, but if there is interference from the bowl or tool rest on bigger bowls, then I resort to the other specialty tools.
robo hippy