3d Laser Engraving

[David Leedy]

Hi!

Does anyone know if the graphics from this site:

http://www.carve3d.com/

Will engrave on wood in a 3d effect on an Epilog Laser?

I know epilog has some 3d sample files floating around... a wristwatch and a ball park I think and I was looking for more if this type...


Thanks!

Dave

[Wil Lambert]

They will if you can have someone to convert the relief into a grayscale picture for you. Find someone with ArtCAM and convert the relief to grayscale and the use that image for your laser.

Wil

[Garry McKinney]

David ,
I have done 3-D laser work, and none of it is as simple as it could be mostly because the programs for the lasers are not realy set up in a proper format to do the work.
All of it is done in percentages , so to be consistant the work can become really involved. And your perception has to be altered to look not at shadows but at depth, often eaiser said then done. We looked at epilog patterns as well but only one pattern was set to real 3-D and the designer wanted $1000.00 for it. After building a few of my own I understood why.

If the laser would ulitize the grayscale as a direct level of like .001 to 1% it would be much eaiser to build the models, but the programs don't work like that , so normal 3-D machining references don't work, to make 3-d function correctly each step needs to have gradient shading , from one section to the next. It is easy to spend 1-2 weeks on the patterns and then 1 day to correct the patterns to get the burns correctly.

This is one of the first one I did in hickory
Hope that helps.

[Mike Null]

Garry

Very nice effort.

If you do a search for 3d engraving you'll find a post by Mike Mackenzie which is worth reading.

[Stephen Beckham]

I've never downloaded from this site to try those files because I don't have the conversion software that they give away. Just didn't feel like messing with downloading and sampling to figure out if I want to buy or not.

Should be a simpler (more customer oriented) option - say like - instead of having register and download our software, then download our sample file then convert for your needs, then try to laser.... They might be able to do all the conversions for you and post a sample Greyscale on their website to let you try the simplest thing first.

I have however downloaded from Gantryco.com and their file worked great on my Epilog. They come ready to burn from Gantry and there is no conversion work. I believe they start out at $125 per graphic and go up from there. I haven't found the need to purchase anything yet because of cost even though that might be really cheap for 3D files.

I've even decided against advertising 3D Lasering because of cost. I'll wait until a customer who understands the process asks for work. It's marketing 101 - if I show a product the custmer doesn't understand - then they won't understand the pricing either. Might lead a customer down the path to go out and blab that I'm high on prices. But when that one customer that's dying to get the work done comes in and askes for it - they've probably done their research and understand what they are asking for - therefore willing to pay the cost.

I found out that (as discussed in the other 3D thread) that the 3D will not be very economical for sales. The picture I attached took over 25 minutes an it's only 5X5 on a 8X10 plaque. Not sure how recoverable the cost will be since a plaque normally in the $30 dollar range just became a $55 dollar range and I haven't done anything else to it.

[Dave Jones]

David, you might try going to their parent site: http://www.vectorart3d.com/ and look at some of the pics. Click on the "Top View" icon on one of them and save the picture. Then in a paint program convert it to gray scale and set auto contrast. Then try engraving that image in 3D mode on your laser.

It may not be perfect, but those yellow preview images seem to show shades of gray equal to depth, just like what you need to do 3D engraving in a laser. They don't sell the images in that format. They sell them in machine formats for carving machines.

[Garry McKinney]

Thanks Mike,
I do that.

Nice Stephen,
But your right, the cost does become a factor quickly. Most people are amazed at the detail, but will opt for something cheaper. I keep a few 3-D pieces around but 85 percent of the customers pass them for simple vetor jobs.

Garry

[Michael Kowalczyk]

I looked at it also and Gantryco does some nice work but hard to justify unless you are making a production product to sell or a large chain or business with several offices in many states wants one in each reception area and have a big budget. OK back to reality. The software I think can be seen at Kern laser that does the grayscale. Several others are trying and or offering their version of 3D laser software, Vytek is one of them also, but I think all you can depend on is the "WOW" factor. In my humble opinion if you plan on using 3D lasering to put food on your table and keep the lights on, well plan on losing some weight and stock up on candles. Unless you have a niche market make sure you have something else going on to pay the bills. I was Wowed when I saw them at the woodworking shows and have a few samples also but even with our laser, as fast as it is, I can think of many others things that are a much more profitable use of machine time.(129)

[Mike Null]

There is another application using 3d art which might have potential. It's called lithothane and involved engraving from the back side of a translucent material then backlighting to reveal the image.
It's a very old process used on ceramics, china and mica. The laser and cnc machines open up new possibilities.

[Wil Lambert]

When I sit down with ArtCAM later I will post a grayscale image from it. The image will be a perfect gradient grayscale for the model shown. It will even be able to be re-imported back into ArtCAM and be a 3D model again. It will let you see if buying carve3D's models will work for you or not.

Wil

[Michael Kowalczyk]

Hey Mike,
I can do that in Artcampro but once again is it cost effective to tie up the machine whether it is done on the CNC or Laser, my opinion still stands that unless you develop a niche market with your own designs and can mass produce them, it is not worth it. Now if your machine(s) is(are) sitting idle and you have plenty of time to set up the artwork and have the system perfected, Go for it. It still will be real hard to make a living but you will get the WOW factor and might be able to sell them on something else you make. One must have many arrows in their quiver if they want to hit the target unless they are an expert. How often do you hit the bullseye on the first try when you only have one shot at it?

[Rodne Gold]

If you could get a smooth surface on the curves , I would use 3d , huge market for spun cast and other masters.

[Mike Null]

Rodney

Very good point. I have made acrylic masters but not 3d.

Michael

I tend to agree with you but there may be something to it if the right material were found.

[Garry McKinney]

I have to agree about the time issue. The grayscale image is only half he battle. It is not unusal to have to run a 3-d cut 3 and even 4 times. We did a 24 x 36 of one. 4 burn and 6 hours later we had a completed piece.

Not likely to recover that type of cost. But the learning was great.

[Mike Mackenzie]

The niche market for 3D laser engraving is for the small stuff. This pc was done on our systems. It was created with ArtCam and we ran it in 3 passes. The engraving time was about 15 minutes you can easily get some good money for a pc like this.

It is also key to use a good material when doing this to soft of wood will just burn, to hard of wood will take longer to engrave.

I would not do LARGE 3d engraving because of the time it takes and no one will pay 500.00 + for a 3D engraving.

The software is also very expensive. I posted a way to do basic 3D set-up's using Corel It is still not easy but it does give you the capability to do your own using Corel.

Here is one we did the size is about 1.75 x 2.00