Engraver for one specific application

[Brian Watkins]

I'm new to the sawmill creek site and have a couple of questions for those of you with laser experience. I am in the market for a laser engraver to mark logos and other engravings on my product. My product is duck calls, so the engravings are small and will be done on a round surface. Most of the material I use for calls is wood, acrylic and delrin. I'm not too worried about how fast I can engrave - I will probably engrave no more than 1000 calls a year. I have been contracting out all of my engraving, but have run into problems with most of the engravers that I have dealt with and am ready to make the investment in an engraver. My biggest problems I have had with having others do my engraving is 1) quality and 2) turn around time. Plus, I prefer to do 100% of the work on my product and at this point the engraving is the only thing I don't do myself. So most of you can probably figure out where I am going with this..........

I am curious what engraver out there would be best for my application. I have done some research and I know this is a very general question and everyone has their own opinions and experience. I am scheduled for a demo next week with Epilog and am looking forward to it. I am thinking that the smallest Epilog mini 12x18, 45 watt, with rotary attachment would suit my application well. I guess my main fear is that this machine is overkill for what I am doing and that there might be something out there that is a little less complicated (also less money) for what I am doing. Although I have no direct experience with engravers, I do well with computers and machinery so I think I can figure it out.

Any words of advice from folks who know a little more and maybe have had some of this same experience?? Thanks for any help!!

Brian

[Ed Maloney]

Brian - First thing to know is that you will need to learn CorelDraw. So you will have ramp-up time with that. Second - 45W does seem like a lot of power for your application. Maybe I mis-read something but I don't see why you would need the rotary attachment. How about trying your hand at posting some pictures of your duck calls and we can all see what additional details we can help with.

BTW - 45W is a lot of power, but once you get started with the laser you may discover other things to produce on it. All depends on how much money you have in your budget really.

[Rodne Gold]

I think its not financially viable to buy a $15k tool for this application , with depreciation , time etc , its gonna cost you $10+ per item to engrave.
A cheap pad printing setup would be more suitable

[Nancy Laird]

Brian, I have to ditto Ed's and Rodne's comments. You are looking at spending a LOT of money for one application, with no way to recover your investment. CorelDraw has a very steep learning curve, more than the laser, and your time investment will be extensive.

For an item such as a duck call, which isn't but about 1-1/2 to 2" in diameter, they can be engraved without a rotary if the logo is small enough. Are your present suppliers using a rotary?

There are many many engravers here on this board who could do your work with a minimum of fuss and turn-around time.

I understand the appeal of doing it yourself, but unless you are looking to branch out into other aspects of laser work, an engraver for your application would be overkill and a waste of money. You are looking at an investment of $15 to 20K for the laser, computer, and software, not to mention your time learning how to do something that an experienced engraver can do.

I'd suggest that you "interview" a few of the engravers here on the forum before you make that leap.

Nancy

[Brian Watkins]

Thanks for the comments - this is what I am looking for. I figured I would learn how to use Corel Draw. I think I can manage it - I am self taught in other graphics software and know that many of these have a steep learning curve. For those of you who may have used both, how does CorelDraw compare to say Adobe Photoshop? Apples to Oranges?

I have been through 2 or 3 engravers in the past and each has had their downfall. I run a highly custom duck call business and need the flexibility to do my own custom engraving. I understand that it is a big investment and have ran the numbers, but I think in the long run it will help my business. Being able to quickly turn around my product is essential. Right now custom orders are taking me 3-4 weeks to fill and the main hold up is the engraving. I am to the point where there is no way to increase production without haveing my own engraver and I am loosing business due to the wait times. Many of my calls have custom engraved names, dates, logos, etc. Having my own engraver would also increase the different call markets I could tap just due to increased flexibility. One of my engravers didn't have a rotary attachment and the engraving really looked bad many times. My other engraver has one and the engraving really looks sharp. I would really like to be able to engrave around the barrel of my call - so I am pretty set on getting a rotary attachment.

And I do have to say one other thing that is appealing to me about having my own engraver is the possibilities that it presents me with. I guess that is the main reason I was worried about the wattage. I don't want to be underpowered. I was told by one of my engravers that the wood really takes a lot of power to engrave - she has a big machine and many of the engraving she did just really weren't that sharp. They looked more like a brand and really burned the wood.

Here are some pictures of just the simpliest of engraving that I do on my calls. Picture one is of, IMO, bad engraving with no rotary attachment. Picture 2 is excellent engraving and is what I am looking to accomplish myself, along with more custom stuff like names and other logos.





Thanks for your comments and help - they are greatly appreciated. I know this is a big investment and is why I am doing my research and asking LOTS of questions to those who are more knowledgable about the laser industry than myself.

Brian

[Phyllis Meyer]

Hi Brian,

We sent you a personal message. The duck calls are beautiful! Wildlife products are one of our specialties and we would love to discuss with you not only our lasering capabilites, but also any help you need with deciding to purchase a laser or not. Good luck!

Sincerely
Phyllis

[Mike Null]

Brian

First, you're right the first engraving is a reject.

The other advice you have received is right on.

If you plan to move ahead with a laser then a small unit of 25 watts is more than adequate for your work.

I think you may need a rotary device which can add $1500-2500 to your price.

I think you'd have an easy time finding plenty of engravers on the forum to do your work and do it well.

I suggest you prepare an art file that you can send to those who express an interest and let them send you a sample of their work. One inch dowels could probably be used for the samples.

[Rodne Gold]

Well I can tell you you can do a lot of other stuff with the laser , like custom presentation boxes in both wood and acrylic , stands for the whistles , custom patterns on the stock, inlays, stands and a whole lot more.
These look like expensive items , so perhaps the cost of engraving em on a one by one customised basis is justified.
Working a laser is dead easy , if you can work a printer , you can work one and if you have the barest inkling of mechanical and materials knowledge , you will get far quick.
In terms of a rotary attachment , what you need is a precision type one , the diameter of your whistles is small thus you need something that accomodates them.

45w is more than enough , tho if you plan cutting woods with the laser , its probably a little underpowered for thicker denser stuff (1/4"+)

Bad engraving is a function of many things , for example materials that dont laser well , low power , unfocussed optics , sloppy motion system , bad drivers etc.

In essence , all the mainstream lasers do the same things equally well. Your driving motivation to buy will be
1) The ability to cope with your products adequately
2)The level of support and warrantee offered.

Normally I would say support is paramount , but in your case , the way the rotary works will be.

I think you might have to modify the rotary attachments , as we have done , with lathe chucks etc to make then far more precise.

A 2nd hand laser would also perhaps be an option as yours seems like its going to see light duty , 1000 items a year is merely 5 a working day.

[Brian Watkins]

Rodne - That is the track I am thinking on........the possibilities that might enable me to do more than what I do now. People really like the engraving on my products and being able to offer things such as presentation boxes would increase my business. I try to think of the big picture. My individual calls are fairly high dollar items and the ones I posted are pretty much standard for my line - nothing fancy. Right now my business is secondary, but this may become full time for me in the future. Another reason to get an engraver for me - to put myself in a position that when I want to go full time I have the equipment to do it effectively. Right now it is definitely a job for me and not a hobby as I devote around 30 hours a week to it in addition to my regular job.

I appreciate all the comments about the wattage - I have obviously been mislead on this. I will definitely start considering the lower wattage engravers now.

What is the life span of some of these machines? I have read that the CO2 tubes often needs replacing and they are fairly expensive. I have thought about buying a used machine, but am wondering if I will get the same service from the manufacturer if I buy used. I want to make sure if I spend this amount of money on something that I can get the service I need, when I need it.

Thanks again everyone for your comments and thoughts - it is greatly appreciated.

[Jim Watkins]

Good morning Brian,
When I saw your name, I thought my brother was muscling in on my new business as I just joined the group a couple months ago.

I just purchased my unit recently and the distrubuters all say the life of the tube is 15k to 20k hours. After reading many of the posts from the great people on this site, I would take that with a grain of salt...

My distributer confirmed for me that my tube has a 2 year guarantee so I am comfortable with that. They also said that probably between 1k to 4k for a replacement tube (out of warranty) depending on the wattage.

I agree with the others who say that you might target a used unit to determine if it meets your needs, however be aware of the warranty issues (or lack of warranty) on a used unit. I know only of the Epilog, where I considered a used unit. While the warranty transferred over the good thing was I could extend the warranty for around $1000 or so.

Anyway, good luck and nice to see a familiar name. lol

[Joe Pelonio]

Your own laser is a big investment but sometimes you have to consider things like control over your deadlines as a plus, that helps offset the cost. You will be able to ship faster leaving time to do more work or some other income-producing work.

If you buy used look for a dealer that will give at least some kind of warranty, or if from a private party find one still on warranty and make sure it's transferable. Some companies (like Epilog) will sell preowned lasers with a 6 month warranty.

[Bruce Volden]

Brian,

Have you considered USED? I have a used machine I have been running 5+ years now. Knocks the price down bunches


Bruce

[Mike Null]

We have a member who is in the business.
http://www.usedlasers.com/

[Thad Nickoley]

Brian, where are you located. you never know you may have a laserist near enough to you to make a deal that works for you and him.

[Larry Bratton]

Come on guys, tell him the truth! It ain't all work. Working with a laser is just plain fun. Take a look around this forum (and others) for all the other neat things you can do with it. If you going to spend the money and you have it, get enough power. 25 watts to me ain't much. I got a big table with mine, for which I am thankful and I wish for more power but the 45 watts you speak of would be more than adequate for your immediate tasks. I have a 40 watt and it does what I need now but down the road..who knows. Good luck!