My Point of View

[Jim DeLaney]

Like Bill, I've been here since Day One. Like Bill. I've been a consistent monetary contributor.

Unlike Bill, I'm not an expert, or a teacher, in any one field, but I do try to offer advice, and reply to threads when I can, or where it interests me.

Bill and I have been 'electronic friends' for many years - even though I'm a flat worker, not a turner.

All that said --- Bill goes; I'm going too.

So long. It was largely fun before it became intolerable.

[Dale Bright]

I read Bill's original post that is in question, both the first time it was up and again when is was put back on the forum. I now see it has been removed a second time. I did not think is was advertising but I am very new here and I am not an expert on the TOS. I have also read his post about the demo on 2 other forums and it has not been removed from them. I hope Mr. Grumbine continues with this forum and that there is simply some misunderstanding about the intent of his origianl post. If a member posts about a local craft fair that he or she is doing and includes the location and time is that construed as advertising or is it simply posted for informational purposes so that other members in the area can stop by? I took Bill's post to be an FYI for members in that area not a solicitation.

I rarely post here but I read and learn from this forum daily and I am concerned about the potential loss of such a wealth of knowledge as Mr. Grumbine. Would one of the moderators please give an explanation about the post removal and why some mods say it is OK and someone else in power thinks it is in violation?

Sincerely,

Dale Bright

[Chris Barton]

I've been watching this thread (and related threads) with interest. My own take is this is a case of jealousy, I would say professional jealousy but, Bill is the only professional involved...

You have my support Bill!

[Bart Leetch]

I used to come here all the time now I come here occasionally & it use to be my home page. I have watched this forum grow & have seen some valuable people abused now I will come here even less if at all.

PS Oh & I vote with my check book too.

Bart may not be here anymore it largely depends on the moderation.

[Barry Stratton]

I respect Bill and I respect Andy. I don't want to see anyone leave over a disagreement........



........well, except folks who post the following type of stuff. Only response I can think of violates all known TOS's. No need for this type of post AT ALL.

I've been watching this thread (and related threads) with interest. My own take is this is a case of jealousy, I would say professional jealousy but, Bill is the only professional involved...

You have my support Bill!

[Dale Bright]

I just read the Sticky about this issue and I now have a better understanding about why Bill's post was removed. I understand but I do not agree with the mod that removed it but I do agree with the members that mentioned the "letter of the law vs. the spirit of the law". I appreciate that the moderators have a thankless and difficult job but still a little common sense, understanding and compassion is needed no matter how difficult the task.

I pose this question to those of you that think that all posts need to pass all aspects the TOS perfectly. Do you ever drive 36mph in a 35mph speed zone and if so how do you sleep at night?

I do not intend to offend anyone or berate anyone with this post, I am simply trying to make a point in general that a position of leadership sometimes requires a little creative judgement.

I understand that this is a privately owned forum and that the owner can make and enforce the rules but it seems that if a vast majority of the members find a post to be appropriate then perhaps someone should be a little more understanding.

Dale Bright

[Bruce Page]

I have never met Bill Grumbine but I have the utmost respect for the man. I have been an admirer of his talent and his prose long before SMC was born.

This whole situation has been handled horribly, and is just flat wrong!

Rules are not all black and white!

[Keith Outten]

Mr Grumbine has had his say and I have responded in another thread. My decision to support the decision made by one of our Moderators is based on our TOS which states;

I. General Terms

It is our policy to support the free flow of information in a manner
best befitting the woodworking community at large. SawMill Creek is an online community where woodworkers may come together to share and discuss a common interest. SawMill Creek reserves the right to refuse or delete any Content of which it becomes aware and reasonably deems not to fulfill it's established purpose. In addition, SawMill Creek shall have the right (but not the obligation) in its sole discretion to edit, refuse or delete any Content that it reasonably considers to violate these Terms without notice. You understand and agree that the service is provided "AS-IS" and that SawMill Creek assumes no responsibility for the timeliness, deletion, mis-delivery or failure to store any user communications.

Bill clearly violated our TOS. We have shown him professional courtesy in the past and we have been flexible allowing him to make commercial announcements. This time we made a different call, we chose to enforce the rules which is well within our rights.

There are those who will consider you friendly when you do them a favor and unprofessional when you refuse.

Our Staff will make mistakes every now and then, our mistakes are not intentional and we are not perfect. To date we have reviewed 632,953 posts since February 11th, 2003...an excellent track record even if we made a few mistakes along the way. We removed a thread then restored it then removed it again after some of us were able to discuss the issue. Our part of this event caused some concern but our error wasn't monumental and we don't deserve the harsh criticism we have received.



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