Type of bowl gouge

[TYLER WOOD]

Well, I am fianlly going to take the plunge and buy an official bowl gouge of my own, seeing I didn't get one for my birthday. (been either using a friends, of a spindle gouge for my stuff)

I am going to be ordering the ones from Doug Thompson, hope they are as good as advertised! But he shows a round groove and a vee groove. What are the pro's and con's of each. I have read and searched, but have really not some across anything.

Is it preference, or is there an actual working difference. Your opinions and knowledge are required. Thanks in advance, and sorry for my lack of knowledge in this field.

[dennis kranz]

Sounds like a good question Tyler. I am also going to be watching this. Thanks for asking.
Dennis

[Jonathon Spafford]

First off I would say that a 1/2" is probably the best one to start with... you can get other ones later as you need them, but this one is the best all purpose for bowls.

About the second question - I took a class from Jimmy Clewes several weeks ago and I asked him the same question about the "U" vs. "V" groove. He said he definitely perfers the "U" style... you'll notice it doesn't clog up as easily. It isn't a big deal to run your finger down the flute every not and then, but it does break up the cut. I do notice that I clear chips quite frequently with mine, which is a "V" style. I don't know the advantage of the "V" flute over the other (if any) and I don't remember that Jimmy knew why they made 'em that way either.

But anyway, I think I would go with the "U" shape if I were you! These are Jimmy's favorites if that is any help with which to choose from!

[Mike Vickery]

http://www.peterchild.co.uk/info1/sflute.htm
Here is a little bit about flute shape.
I believe he is right and you will get many different answers from different turners even among the Pro's. Plus even among U and V shaped flutes you will get diffreent shapes between brands.
I just ordered a thompsons 5/8ths last week and decided to try the V shaped flute. May regret it but will not know for a while I have not got the gouge yet or made the handle so if you want to wait a week or so I can give you my opinion after I used it for a while.
Since we all use different angles and grinds and cutting styles I am not sure my opinion will mean much.

[Dale Miner]

I purchased a Doug Thompson 5/8 'U' flute bowl gouge about 6 weeks ago, and am completely satisfied. I can't give numbers like 3X or 6X longer edge holding over regular HSS, but do feel it stays sharp longer. I still give it a touch up for the final cuts.

I can't offer any advice on the shape of the flute.

I have a 5/8 'V' flute (import) also. Seems like the different shapes work better for different parts of the bowl.

I use the 'U' much more than the 'V'.

Later,

Dale M

[Steve Trauthwein]

I have a deep fluted v bowl gouge and I find it very nice for shear scraping. For all of my other bowl gouges I use the u shape.

Regards, Steve

[Brodie Brickey]

Tyler,

I have both types of Doug's gouges. His V flute is not as sharply vertical as some other V fluted gouges like Sorby. I have a 5/8 U & 5/8 V as well as a 1/2 U & 3/8 V.

I would recommend you consider Doug's V whether 1/2 or larger to start. The larger U gouges are almost like a roughing gouge they're so wide. The V will allow you to lay it on its side and work a nice shear cut from the foot of your bowl up to the rim on the outside.

It will also perform just fine inside. The U shape is great when roughing out a bowl and you can get some nice clean cuts with it, but when it comes to finishing cuts the V groove will give you greater options especially with an Irish grind (wings swept back).

I'd really like to see Doug offer an ultra 'V' that is even sharper, but it would be for a more specialized use. If you have a McKnaughton coring tool, you can use the handle to hold your gouges which will give you the benefit of a nice heavy handle and still be able to take the handle off when sharpening. I've found that I sometimes mess up the sharpening because my 'turning muscle' gets in the way of the gouge's handle. With detachable gouges this isn't as much of a problem.

[Gordon Seto]

I have posted the same question about the "U" and "V", I didn't get too many responses with explanation.
As to the "V" shape clogging, it has to do with the depth of the flute. Doug Thompson makes all his tools by himself. I knew he has done a lot of experiment on the flute shape. He made a lot of prototype gouges of various flute depths and put them to test. According to him, the clogging occurs when the flute is too deep. Doug turns cowboy hat. I went to his shop, I saw several-feet long shavings draping from walls across the lathe. There was no sign of clogging; he himself uses "V" flute gouge but he sells more "U".

Doug is going to do a life size cowboy hat demo at our Club (BWWT.org) this Saturday. BTW, Doug is not compensation for the demo.

Gordon

[Bill Blasic]

When I purchased the first gouge from Doug Thompson I asked him which one he thought I'd be happiest with based on where I am with my turning, he suggested the V gouge. I now have 3 and will get the newest and biggest next month from Doug. These are great tools and you will not go wrong with any of them. I also purchased a 1 1/4" skew from Doug and have passed it on to Kurt Hertzog (a master of the skew in my opinion) to get a definative view as to this powdered metal technology vs HSS. The thing you always hear is that you cannot get powdered metal as sharp as HSS. After sharpening and honing Kurt informed me he can see no difference in sharpness between the two types and that it cuts beautifully. He will continue tests for how long they stay sharp. Kurt really likes the Thompson skew so stayed tuned for further reports.

[Bob Hallowell]

Sorry to steal the thread Tyler, But I was hoping on visiting Kurt in a few weeks. I use the skew alot but I don't like it maybe Kurt can give me some pointers

Bob

[Dennis Peacock]

Tyler,

I like my Doug Thompson tool that I bought. I have a 3/8"-U shaped and I was pretty curious about the bigger opening. I can say that it works great for roughing, but I can't seem to find a way to use it for "finishing" type cuts. The grind is considerably different than any other gouge I have, so I have my grinder for my standard bowl gouges and my Tormek setup for my DT 3/8"-U gouge. I can say that it does seem to hold an edge for a long time than my Crown or P&N gouges and I haven't tried the DT gouge in a shear-scrape type cut yet....maybe I'll try that today.

Doug's a great guy, pleasant to do business with and has some nice turning tools. BTW, the "V" shaped gouges are more along the lines of what everyone is mostly used to.

[Bill Wyko]

I've been using the Crown Pro PM with the Elsworth grind and I love it. It hasn't been sharpened yet though. It's tough to get it set up just right on a jig. The way I use it is I let the upper edge drag the vessel or bowl as it is coming down on to the tool. Then I roll the bottom side of the tool into the piece I'm turning. This allows me to carefully control the cut. I don't know if this is the right way to use this tool but it seems to work well for me.

[Jonathon Spafford]

According to him, the clogging occurs when the flute is too deep. Doug turns cowboy hat. I went to his shop, I saw several-feet long shavings draping from walls across the lathe. There was no sign of clogging; he himself uses "V" flute gouge but he sells more "U".

I have never seen his gouges, but one thing to note is that the flute won't clog as easily with wet wood (like he is turning when he makes cowboy hats) when you are getting the long shavings. The flute usually clogs with dry wood and the short little chips/curls.

[Malcolm Tibbetts]

Tyler, I don't know if I've ever used a V groove bowl gouge. I do the majority of my turning with an “U”-shaped 1/2" gouge. The brand, etc is probably less important than the edge profile that you maintain with sharpening. I've recently changed from the common side grind (hollow) that most turners create using a jig to now hand sharpening a slight convex shape behind the cutting edge. This has been promoted by Johannes Michelsen. It's quite a different feel. So far I like the change. For one thing, there's no bruising of the wood fibers from the pressure of the heel rubbing. The rubbing occurs right at the edge. Just something to think about and probably confuse the issue even more.

[TYLER WOOD]

great! Thanks Malcom, as if I didn't feel inadequate enought to talk gouge groove types, you made it more copmlicated!

I think from what all are saying is that for green wood (which is mostly what I turn) the vee groove is a better fit.

So what say ye to this. 1 - 1/2" vee groove bowl gouge, 1 - 3/8" u groove bowl gouge. Then I can compare for myself, but get the larger size as the typical one for more use. Use the 3/8" to try out on smaller projects. Or should I just go both in the vee groove and be done. And then what Malcom said!