Woodcraft is leaving the Freedom Pens Project

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

I am glad to see that there are a few voices of reason here. Thanks Ken.

Since Woodcraft GAVE pen kits with the help of Barea and blanks,Lathe &Tooling use, employee help in offering free teaching at their turnathons, which generated in excess of 25,000 pens out of the 79,000 reported sent to the troops, I believe that A BIG THANK YOU IS MORE IN ORDER.

You all know I work there, but RIGHT IS RIGHT...................Give CREDIT where it is due. Stop beating up one of of the suppliers that supported you WELL! All vendors are in business to make a profit, but Woodcraft as well as many other other ww retailors offer their places of business for meetings, demonstrations, and workshops at no cost to woodworking groups.

As always Just MY opinion. I was told by Woodcraft to let it be, but had to speak.

Bruce

[Matt Meiser]

My opinion is that it is wrong to create a competing program because that's not going to do any good towards the goal which is to get a pen to every service member. Now two (three?) different groups are attempting to do the same thing with no coordination. I just confuses everyone instead of creating a coordinated effort to do the most good. Imagine the reaction if Wal-Mart gave the Salvation Army the boot tomorrow and put their own pots out because they didn't like the way the Salvation Army ran things.

Bruce, whether or not you intended to do so, I get the impression Woodcraft isn't happy they didn't get enough credit? Isn't it about the folks getting the pens? Isn't bringing enough people into the stores to turn 25,000 pens enough?

Now if Woodcraft just didn't want to participate, that is fine and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. If that's what they'd done, or if they chose to do a Toys for Tots build-a-thon instead, I'd say thank you for a good couple years.

Edit: BTW, I think its a real shame what Woodcraft corporate is doing, but I still expect I'll shop my local store (Toledo, OH) as its a locally owned franchise. The other local store (Canton, MI) I stopped shopping at a long time ago because they...well lets just say they apparently could care less whether or not someone comes back. Being a franchise operation the flavor of the local store is more controlled by the owner and staff than anyone else.

[Jon Lanier]

You all know I work there, but RIGHT IS RIGHT...................Give CREDIT where it is due. Stop beating up one of of the suppliers that supported you WELL! All vendors are in business to make a profit, but Woodcraft as well as many other other ww retailors offer their places of business for meetings, demonstrations, and workshops at no cost to woodworking groups.
Bruce

Bruce, Do you really think that Woodcrafters would open up their place of business for meetings if it didn't make money off of those people coming into the meeting?

The bottom line of all this still comes down to Woodcrafters wanting to take this over for profit and visibility reasons. None other.

The man who knows how will always have a job, but he will work for the man who knows why.

-Jon

[Bruce Shiverdecker]

I guess I should have left well enough alone.

I believe that this thread should be locked.

AS I SAID BEFORE - Woodcraft told me NOT to comment. IT"S MY feelings, not theirs.

It would be nice if people would READ and believe what is written!

That is MY last word and look at this thread!

Bruce

[Matt Meiser]

I did read what you said--and told you the impression I got from it (and I guess the other information that's come out of Woodcraft)????

[Leo Pashea]

A few points Keith. It is unrealistic to think that there are no children turning pens at any Woodcraft turning session. There have been, and will continue to be children involved in this endeavor.

Also, there will be some level of control of pens getting in the hands of troops. One pen kit turned at a Woodcraft store will mean one pen into the hands of a deserving soldier.

Consider these few things:

* How many pen kits, that were purchased by donated funds, were sent out and never returned as a completed pen? Was it one for one? I'll bet not.

* How many kits, that were purchased at a discounted price from a participating vendor, were never returned completed for the pen project?
How would you as a vendor feel if you were discounting your product for a charitable cause and your discounted product was ending up elsewhere?

Think about it. Berea is partnered with Woodcraft on their efforts providing pens for the troops. Were they not once supplying you folks for your efforts? That alone tells me something. As stated before, each group should do their own thing, and may the soldiers abroad benefit from all combined efforts.

[David Weaver]

I guess I should have left well enough alone.

I believe that this thread should be locked.

AS I SAID BEFORE - Woodcraft told me NOT to comment. IT"S MY feelings, not theirs.

It would be nice if people would READ and believe what is written!

That is MY last word and look at this thread!

Bruce

Why should the thread be locked? Woodcraft made a decision that is a blatant money grab, they got caught sending misleading emails to members on here, and now they're getting their due.

I'm not surprised, though. Our local franchise is one of the poorly flavored stores. Two people are nice there, and don't seem to know much, and the other two who are regularly at the counter shouldn't be anywhere working with people. Their prices are abysmal and it seems like corporate is more interested in selling franchises than they are in setting up someone who is equipped to compete.

I'd be curious to see what they've made more profit off of in the past- selling tools, or selling franchises.

I'm done shopping there. I probably was anyway given their offensive prices and the customer service at my local WC, but I definitely am now.

[Keith Outten]

A few points Keith. It is unrealistic to think that there are no children turning pens at any Woodcraft turning session. There have been, and will continue to be children involved in this endeavor.

Also, there will be some level of control of pens getting in the hands of troops. One pen kit turned at a Woodcraft store will mean one pen into the hands of a deserving soldier.

Consider these few things:

* How many pen kits, that were purchased by donated funds, were sent out and never returned as a completed pen? Was it one for one? I'll bet not.

* How many kits, that were purchased at a discounted price from a participating vendor, were never returned completed for the pen project?
How would you as a vendor feel if you were discounting your product for a charitable cause and your discounted product was ending up elsewhere?

Think about it. Berea is partnered with Woodcraft on their efforts providing pens for the troops. Were they not once supplying you folks for your efforts? That alone tells me something. As stated before, each group should do their own thing, and may the soldiers abroad benefit from all combined efforts.

Leo,

I believe I used the word generally in my statement about children turning pens at Woodcraft and I think it is true.

I believe that Woodcraft will get their pens to our troops.

You would be real surprised that we are close to 100% of all the pen kits that we have sent out have been returned as completed pens. In the beginning I honestly thought this was going to be a problem for us but we found out that our Freedom Pen Turners are the most honorable group of people that I have ever known and I mean that literally.

Berea was in fact one of our pen kit suppliers for a very long time. Unfortunately they suffered a price increase that PSI didn't and since our pen turners wanted the lowest price for pen kits they were giving away in large numbers the price is a major part of the equation. I still order streamline kits from Berea because it is the kit I prefer to use for the pens I turn and I don't mind paying a bit more for a pen kit that I like. Just so you know there are no hard feelings between The Creek and Berea, they just offered us some very nice prizes to give away here this month. Look for a Berea FreeStuff Drawing thread in the next few days.

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[Darren Ford]

Dale, I guess you don't get it.

If Woodcraft had pulled out at the beginning of the year, instead of the last minute, I don't think anyone would be upset. Doing it on the eve of "The Event" is very crass.

If Woodcraft had started their own Troop support program, say Birdhouses for Troops or something, I wouldn't see that as a problem either.

My issue here is pulling out with virtually no notice, and then stealing the idea. To top it off they have produced "reasons" after the fact that do not align with the truth.

I do agree with Leo on one point, there *is* some juvenile behaviour going on, and that would be Woodcrafts handling of this whole issue.

[Keith Outten]

Well its a done deal now so there is little to be gained from continuing to beat up on Woodcraft at this point. I did want everyone to know that Jackie and I haven't done anything to justify the changes that have been made.

It is important that we now find another host or hosts for next years Turn-A-Thon and to concentrate our efforts on making and shipping pens. Assuming everyone wants to continue The Freedom Pens Project we will need help finding and coordinating a new home for our Veterans Day 2008 Turn-A-Thon.

Does anyone have any ideas or connections?

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[Darren Ford]

Keith,

Does it have to be a retail partner? Have you thought about a group like the VFW ?

[Cliff Bishop]

I have been a volunteer on the Gulf coast since Katrina struck and have come upon some mahogony wood from a destroyed shrimp boat. This boat the Apache Trail and the Apache Drum its sister ship were the pride of the fleet in Venice,La until they were both destroyed by the storm. The wood from this boat has been donated top different people that have made crosses out of them and they have been distributed all ove the world. I think I can get my brothers and myself and several others that have the wood to cut it into pen blank size and donate it to this project, I cant think of a better place for it some of the crosses have gone to fallen soldiers families. If this is a possibility I would be willing to talk to anyone with a connection to that project about it. I am new to this forum and enjoy it very much. Thanks

[Dale Stagg]

Thanks Darren for setting me straight.
Glad they didn't do birdhouses or something else as someone would rip them for doing something with wood. Or if they sent money, they would possibly be ripped for copying someone else for donating money which could be a copy cat from someone else. Yep, I get it now. Ok, if they did it in bad timing, maybe a problem, but to rip someone for donations from in past or don't like how they donate, shame. I'm sorry, they may have left the project stranded and in a hardship, and may should have postponed the decision until next year but at least they did support it in past which is more than other companies. If they get accused of doing so for future returns, well what company don't do the same thing. Companies donate for advertisement and at least the charities do come out ahead with donations they woudn't have gotten otherwise. Sorry, just my opinion and it is regretfull that they did put a hardship on the original project and put it in jeopordy and would be sad that competion of a good thing hurt another good thing. I understand some feelings, but still have to look at it unbiased and infringing on good works just don't make someone bad in my eyes.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Let's let it go. Please. It's done.....it's over....there's nothing to be won by continuing to harangue each other.

[Keith Outten]

Keith,

Does it have to be a retail partner? Have you thought about a group like the VFW ?

I have been a volunteer on the Gulf coast since Katrina struck and have come upon some mahogony wood from a destroyed shrimp boat. This boat the Apache Trail and the Apache Drum its sister ship were the pride of the fleet in Venice,La until they were both destroyed by the storm. The wood from this boat has been donated top different people that have made crosses out of them and they have been distributed all ove the world. I think I can get my brothers and myself and several others that have the wood to cut it into pen blank size and donate it to this project, I cant think of a better place for it some of the crosses have gone to fallen soldiers families. If this is a possibility I would be willing to talk to anyone with a connection to that project about it. I am new to this forum and enjoy it very much. Thanks

Darren,

Good idea, the VFW or American Legion might be good candidates for hosting our TAT. I will do some research and let you know.

Cliff,

You can send wood, lumber or pen blanks to me and I will see that it gets distributed to our pen turners. I bet that lots of school children would love to turn a pen from a blank that has history behind it. Thanks

Freedom Pens Project
8770 Little England Rd
Hayes, VA 23072

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