Problems with Poplar

[Michael Hammers]

This weekend I decided to practice my dovetails in something besides what I had been learning on which was mahogany, cherry and walnut.
My dovetails in these woods were ok..I am still learning. However when I tried this in poplar and they were atrocious.
My tools are sharp but the wood just seemed to act like pine in the way it was cutting\tearing.
Is this normal for poplar? I could not get a good fit at all....

[Mike K Wenzloff]

Hi Michael,

Poplar (like Pine) simply needs very sharp chisels. If you are chopping them (verses cutting out the waste with a coping saw), use one chisel for chopping, come to an 1/8" from the baseline and use the second *very* sharp chisel to pare with.

Alternatively, do all your chopping (perhaps even sharpening once during chopping) and before you pare them, sharpen again. At the first sign of fiber tear out or crushing, sharpen.

I typically saw out the waste and only pare, but I may need to sharpen once or twice per board end (that is 8 honings per drawer), depending on the wood.

Take care, Mike

[Don Pierson]

I had the same expierence and I found that I really didn't know what sharp was. After Charleworth's sharpening DVDs and a set of water stones the dovetails in softer wood got a lot easier.

[glenn bradley]

Mike and Don have your answer. Poplar is pretty soft and will tear as opposed to pare when the cutter's pull is stronger than the woods fibers. Sharpen, sharpen, sharpen . . . oh and hone now and then while working it ;-)

[Michael Schwartz]

I find in soft woods it helps to have a really really sharp skew chisel for pairing.

[Michael Hammers]

Ok, I think maybe y'all are right. Perhaps I really need to re-think "sharp". I will sit down and re-work the edge tonight and have another go at it. I am also going to try and saw further from the line and pare down.
I have not tried any dovetails using the coping saw. If I am still getting alot of aggravation I may look at doing so.
Thanks for the input, it helps knowing your not losing your marbles!

[Matt Chantry]

I would second the suggestion to use a coping saw first. Someone I worked with also took a chisel and sharpened it at 17 degrees - ONLY for use in very light paring of dovetails. It definitely worked, but you have to be extremely careful that you only push the chisel, never hit it, and never take off more than a hair at a time.

M

[Michael Hammers]

Well, I reworked my chisel and it went better..not great mind you.
I am perplexed as to why I have to hone again so often. I am using a Barr 1/4 chisel. I have not had this problem in other woods. Can this softwood really take a burr off that fast?
I also have a razor sharp paring chisel I had Cape Forge make for me and it slices no problem.( I have the scar to prove it! ) And it retains its edge too. So when I get close to the line I can get a pretty good fit.
I am really trying to avoid the coping saw method simply because I am new to it.
I suppose I am just a little surprised by the edge retention on my chisel in this wood?

[Mike K Wenzloff]

I suppose it is a matter of terms, but there shouldn't be a burr left following sharpening. If there is an actualy burr left on the edge, the edge is actually dull to begin with.

I don't know what Barr uses for steel, but there shouldn't be too much an issues with edge retention.

No matter who's chisel I own and use at the moment for paring, I always hone frequently--not sharpen. A couple swipes on my finest stone between operations/joints or every couple joints.

The main waste, if you are bashing it out should be done for a few to several spaces, a quick hone and move on. This should not be done to your baseline. Hold it back a bit, note how much break out is occuring and hold back as much as is needed. Then pare to the lines with either your Cape Forge paring chisel or sharpen and or hone the Barr to finish with.

Take care, Mike

[Michael Hammers]

Mike, you are right I did not use the right terminology. I am notorious for that!
Bob S. helped me realize quickly to try and use the correct terminology, and it IS important. It really helps neophytes like myself learn more and learn accurately.

I am not creating and removing a burr excpet for the first time I re-worked the blade. I went to my horse butt strop in between. Perhaps I should go to my Hard -Translucent Arkansas ?

Also, I only include brand names simply to get accurate feedback from others using the same tools, not to name drop. ( I have received a very odd message on this) Learning vicariously is indeed difficult enough, throw in the limited number of people who actually work with handtools and its even harder.

I think I am on the right track and appreciate your comments. I will do what needs to be done now, practice, practice, practice.....

[Don Pierson]

I did most of practice dovetails with soft cedar fencing. I used sharp knifes instead of chisels for the paring. Here is a pic of two single bevel knives I made handles for.

[David DeCristoforo]

"I suppose I am just a little surprised by the edge retention on my chisel in this wood?"

The problem is that because the wood is so soft, the edge has to be super sharp to cut the fibers instead of crushing them. Your edges probably are not dulling any faster that if you were cutting a harder wood. You are just noticing it sooner. Try paring balsa wood and you will see the extreme example of this.