How do you tell the difference between southern yellow pine and douglas fir?

[adam prochaska]

Hi everyone! I am restoring my 1915 home in Lincoln, Nebraska. The woodwork on the first floor is oak but the woodwork on the second floor is either southern yellow pine or douglas fir. I've consulted numerous people in Lincoln and about 1/2 think its pine and 1/2 think its fir. I have tried to look at photos on the internet but they are not helpful. Are there any specific characteristics that i should be looking for? Also, is it possible that the floor could be fir and the trim could be pine? Some people have suggested that as well. I am at work this afternoon but will try to attach some photos later today.

thanks for your help!!!

adam

[glenn bradley]

Is there a University with a Botany Dept. or a Botanical Garden around? I would probably trust their worst guess.

[Josiah Bartlett]

I would just sand a little corner of it and take a good whiff. Its pretty easy to distinguish pine from fir by the smell.

[scott spencer]

That's a tough one visually...I think Josiah's got the right idea by smelling it.

fir:
fir,%20douglas%20end%20grain%201%20s25%20q60%20plh.jpg fir,%20douglas%20end%20grain%20s25%20q60%20plh.jpg
pine:
pine,%20longleaf%201%20end%20grain%20s25%20q60%20plh.jpg pine,%20longleaf%201%20end%20grain%20closeup%20s25%20q60%20plh.jpg

[adam prochaska]

I've attached photos of the trim and floor. The trim has been stripped, sanded, and three coats of a wiping varnish applied. I sanded a spot on the floor and added a coat of wiping varnish to bring out the grain. You will see on the outside of the floor photo, the original floor was stained dark. Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated. THANKS!!!

[adam prochaska]

What am i looking for in regards to smell? and will this test work with 90 year old wood?

[Bob Herpolsheimer]

Hey Adam,

UNL has a Foresty Dept withing their Extension Division over on east campus. I bet they could help and if not direct you to someplace that could.

[Bob Herpolsheimer]

Hey Adam,

UNL has a Foresty Dept withing their Extension Division over on east campus. I bet they could help and if not direct you to someplace that could.

[Jim Thiel]

When you say restoring, do you mean a historical representation, or were some trim details damaged and you want them to look right? If it's the former, call you local historical society for some help. if the latter, just reach for what ever pleases your eye. My guess is it was meant to be painted in the first place.

Jim

[Roger Newby]

Your window trim is SYP and the flooring sure looks like fir, both are the same as I have in my house down the road in Syracuse, NE. If you saw the flooring and it smells like turpentine, you have fir. My house was built in 1900 and I just cut a hole in the floor for a bath remodel and it smelled like new wood.

Roger

[Phil Thien]

Your window trim is SYP and the flooring sure looks like fir, both are the same as I have in my house down the road in Syracuse, NE. If you saw the flooring and it smells like turpentine, you have fir. My house was built in 1900 and I just cut a hole in the floor for a bath remodel and it smelled like new wood.

Roger

I concur. Floor is straight-grained fir, trim is SYP.

[Ralph Barhorst]

I agree with Roger. Floor is Doug Fir and window trim is SYP. I just planed down some Doug Fir that was used as flooring in my brother's 100 year old house and it still smelled like turpentine.

[Lee Hingle]

Not sure if I agree with 2 of the last 3 posters.

The turpentine smell comes from heart pine. Most pine trees have to get huge to convert any large amount of the wood to heart - thus the reason heart pine is usually only available as salvaged wood from old structures. There just aren't many trees big enough anymore to saw heart pine from.

I have never smelled any fir that had a turpentine smell ever, even in old houses.

The trim is definitely SYP, and the floor does look like fir - but in my opinion, if it (the floor) smells like turpentine, then it is heart pine.

Lee

photo attached for interest

[Jules Dominguez]

I agree the trim looks like SYP and flooring like Douglas Fir. I haven't used a lot of DF, but what I have used looks totally different from SYP. I've also never gotten a turpentine smell from DF.

[Dave MacArthur]

I'm not sure at all whether pine or fir has a stronger turpentine odor, and don't mean to disagree with anyone above--this was just a very interesting topic to me as my father used to be in the resin/turpentine business (Hercules), and I visited a plant once where they made turpentine with him. He tells me most turpentine in their business was made from old pine stumps dug up in the south, Carolinas and Florida. I recall seeing giant stumps being unloaded from trucks and fed into chippers. However, dictionary.com actually says turpentine can come from both pine AND fir:

A semifluid or fluid oleoresin, primarily the exudation of the terebinth, or turpentine, tree (Pistacia Terebinthus), a native of the Mediterranean region. It is also obtained from many coniferous trees, especially species of pine, larch, and fir.
Note: There are many varieties of turpentine. Chian turpentine is produced in small quantities by the turpentine tree (Pistacia Terebinthus). Venice, Swiss, or larch turpentine, is obtained from Larix Europ[ae]a. It is a clear, colorless balsam, having a tendency to solidify. Canada turpentine, or Canada balsam, is the purest of all the pine turpentines (see under Balsam). The Carpathian and Hungarian varieties are derived from Pinus Cembra and Pinus Mugho. Carolina turpentine, the most abundant kind, comes from the long-leaved pine (Pinus palustris). Strasburg turpentine is from the silver fir (Abies pectinata).