Finishing procedure help for novice

[Tom Wall]

This is my first post after viewing this very informative forum for 2-3 weeks. I need some advice for my first project, other than some built in book shelves. I am building a 3 section (2',5',4') base media cabinet with open shelving above. I have chosen Hickory (alder a 2nd choice) and want a dark brown stain and low lustre finish. My plan, so far, is:
1) Trans Tint dye .... not sure whether to mix with water or alcohol, I just want to avoid any 'splotching'. Is this wipe on or brush?
2) Zinsser seal coat ... do I cut this?...how much?..rag or brush?
3) Pore filler?.. do I need this plus a stain after to achieve the color I want?
4) Stain .... only if the dye and/or filler don't achieve the darkness I want?
5) Finish coat? ... again, not sure what would be ok to apply over what I have already put on. Waterlox?.. oil/varnish?
Any help on procedure and products would be appreciated.

[Dennis Peacock]

Hello Tom and welcome to SMC!!!

I'm sure others will chime in here, but I'll share my experiences with some of the questions you have asked.

One thing you didn't mention is if you have a spray setup or are even thinking about spraying.

My experience with water based dye is that it's best applied, for a nice even color coat, is to spray it on. My experience with alcohol based dye has been such that you can spray it or wipe it on without worry of overlap or any real splotching. Hickory is a nice wood and will machine and finish very nicely.

Zensser sealcoat, I would make this about a 2 pound cut and if you plan on topcoating with another finish, I'd make sure it was "dewaxed" so any finish will stick to the sealcoat. I usually mix my own shellac flakes so I'm not much help here.

Pore filler, I've never really used, so someone with this product will need to share their wisdom on its use.

My usual clearcoat choices are lacquer, shellac, and polyurethane..and in that order. I usually spray the lacquer and shellac and the poly I mix 50/50 with mineral spirits to make it a "wiping type varnish". But I prefer the fast drying finishes to help cut down on the wait time between coats.

[Steve Schoene]

Starting with dye. Dye is good for establishing an overall base color and blotches less than pigmented stain. I don't recall that hickory has a blotching problem, but alder does. I think Dennis has reversed things a bit. Analine dye mixed with water goes on well by hand. A sponge or rag is good and you want to flood it one as long as it is done neatly without splashing or runs. On vertical surfaces start at the bottom and work up. Alcohol mixed dye dries too fast--it's the one that should only be sprayed.

Following the dye, you should seal with one coat of the SealCoat. It is a dewaxed shellac and only comes as 2 lb. cut, which is a good consistency to apply either by padding it on or with a brush.

Then with the hickory, which is an open pored wood, you have to make a decision as to whether to fill the pores to get a glassy smooth surface or not. Filling pores tends to go with more formal finishes and furniture. The pore filler itself should be tinted to give the color you want for the pores. It can contrast with the dye, either lighter or darker, or it can be tinted to closely match the dye, minimizing the grain effect of the pores. If you don't fill pores at this stage you should use a pigmented oil stain, which will serve the same function as coloring the pores, except without filling them.

Waterlox which is wiping varnish, comes in three flavors, Satin, Original/Sealer, and Gloss. It is particularly nice when you have not filled pores and can be applied thinly so as not to emphasize the texture of the unfilled pores. If you fill the pores, Waterlox will work fine, but you could also consider a bit thicker coating using a brush on varnish. Behlen Rockhard if you have a relatively dark color, or Pratt & Lambert 38 or McCloskey Heirloom, for lighter colors. The brushed on varnish is easier to rub out to eliminate dust nibs and obtain whatever sheen you want.

A key "rule" for finishing is to always make samples, from start to finish, of any schedule. Testing on scrap is a lot better than testing on the project itself.

[Tom Wall]

Thanks for the reply, they were very much needed. Understanding your advice, I am going to use a dark brown Trans Tint mixed with water. I have already seen the dewaxed 'Bulls Eye' shellac. This cabinet is going to be a non-formal piece. So, I don't think I will use a pore filler but instead go with the oil stain that helps me achieve the color I want. I'm leaning towards Waterlox because this is my 1st project and it seems it might go on easier than the brush on varnish. Can I apply more than 1 coat of Waterlox? Also, do I sand in between any of these preparations? Thanks again for the advice.

[Craig Kershaw]

Tom - Welcome to the creek. I'm doing a bar in my basement and am using waterlox on cherry. One of the nice things about waterlox is that you do not need to sand between coats. I've put up to 5 coats of the glossy finish on and it looks great. Just make sure that it is dry before you put the next coat on.

[Tom Wall]

Craig..thanks for the tip. I have a sample board I'm starting on tomorrow.
Do you buff out the last coat?

[Steve Schoene]

It takes about 3 coats of a wiped on varnish to be equivalent to only 1 coat of brushed so you definitely should plan on more than one coat.

If Waterlox is to be the top coat then you don't need to worry about getting dewaxed shellac since it will adhere to shellac with wax as well. Polyurethane varnishes and waterborne finishes are the ones that won't adhere as well over shellac with wax. All of Zinsser's pre-mixed shellac's (and a number of other products) say BullsEye, but only SealCoat is dewaxed.

Yes, you can lightly buff the wiped on finish. For the Waterlox varnishes sanding between coats (using 320 or 400 grit paper) is only needed to knock down dust nibs or correct other defects, but removing these before the final coat does improve the overall appearance of the finish. If you have picked up dust nibs on the final coat, they can be removed by lightly kissing the surface with a card scraper before buffing. I keep emphasizing lightly because you don't have a lot of thickness to play with so I recommend staying with hand powered buffing or polishing since it is pretty easy to get carried away with power.

[Tom Wall]

I have found the Trans Tint dye and Zinsser's dewaxed shellac at a local Woodcraft store. They carry the brand 'General Finishes' for their oil based stains. Any other brand suggestions or is this brand a good product. Also, do I need to apply a pre-stain wood conditioner? I don't fully understand that once you put the seal coat on after the dye, how does the stain penetrate into the wood uniformly?

[Steve Schoene]

The General Finishes is a respectable brand--generally more highly thought of than--say Minwax.

The purpose of the seal coat between dye and pigment stain is so that the pigment will be concentrated in the pores, with only a modest effect on the surfaces in between. This adds depth to the finish and keeps the pigment stain from overpowering the base color set by the dye. One application of SealCoat won't completely seal the surface, but will tend to be a good "pre-stain conditioner". On your sample you might check the difference between using the 2 lb. cut straight from the can, or a 1 lb. cut made by mixing 3 parts shellac with 2 parts alcohol.

[Bob Barkto]

I see Steve answered while I was looking over this post, but I'll throw it out here anyway! Might add a little to the discussion.

You can think of oil based stains as kind of a semi transparent paint.
They will leave behind particles of pigment in any depressions as long as you aren't too aggressive in wiping off.

Your application of oil stain in this schedule is to fill the pores with some color and perhaps tone or shade the overall appearance. It's not really being used as a full colorant.
Most of the stain/pigment will probably be wiped off the surface. Although you can leave more of it on the surface if you need/want to adjust the color somewhat.

You don't need the wood conditioner for the schedule outlined. The shellac will perform that function in addition to locking in the dye. If you were applying the oil stain to bare wood a conditioner might be desired. The conditioner helps even out the absorption of the pigment so you don't get a blotchy appearance. Testing would tell if it was needed or wanted.

Hope that made sense.

[Tom Wall]

Thanks for all the help. I'm sure you've answered these type of questions hundreds of times. I appreciate the patience. I'm heading to the store now, I assume it is denatured alcohol you cut the shellac with? And with the dye, I understand to 'flood' it on without runs and such, but I read somewhere that some 'flood' with plain water first to raise the grain??? Did I read or understand that wrong? Doesn't this water added to dried wood make the wood warp or something? Sorry for the novice questions.

[Steve Schoene]

Raising the grain is often recommended. It's not really a flood, just a reasonably damp wetting of the surface. When it dries then you would gently sand to remove the raised grain. It's OK, but I don't believe it is really needed. I prefer to apply the dye, let it dry, and then apply the shellac sealing coat. At that point, the raised grain nibs will have be hardened by the shellac and are easier to sand off by lightly sanding the shellac.

Why doesn't wetting the surface with water, either in grain raising or in dying, warp the wood? It might, but mostly the wood is already machined and fastened in place with the construction holding it in place while allowing it to move as moisture levels change. And, probably more importantly, the surface water soon evaporates and any warp eliminates itself as the wood returns to equilibrium moisture on both sides. It is a reason that you should always leave wood stickered so air can reach both sides evenly. Boards left flat on work benches often have warping problems.

[Tom Wall]

Thanks again..and if I mix up a quart of dye solution to test on the samples, how long will it stay in a covered plastic container til I'm done with the construction of the cabinet? Or should I mix up very little dye solution for the samples and wait and mix the quart of dye when the project is done?

[Steve Schoene]

Mixed dye will last quite a while, especially if out of light. It's better to mix what you will need at the beginning since unless you have very accurate measuring devises it's hard to exactly duplicate a concentration. If you were using powdered dye such as TransFast or the Lockwood powders you would have to weigh the powders, calling for quite sensitive scales.

[Tom Wall]

I bought some Trans Tint this weekend, so I'll mix the 1oz:1qt ratio and test the sample boards and then store it til I finish the cabinet. Thanks