Pinnacle gouge snaps!

[John Shuk]

That gouge just isn't made for bowl work. If it were an endgrain bowl and you were roughing the outside it would work. Face grain bowl well it could have been worse.

[George Guadiane]

Trying to be helpful, I wrote a post about this very issue about a week ago on the Creek Forum, but I guess the ones that needed to read it didn't. I repeat, myself, "Never use a roughing gouge to rough out a bowl." Others have said the same thing, but turners will continue to break roughing gouges on bowls and expect companies to replace them for free.

OK, help me out here, if I am roughing the OUTSIDE of a 10 inch diameter "spindle," it's OK, but if I am using the same tool to true up an end grain vase or bowl it's not? I don't pretend to know everything, and maybe roughing gouges are only for small spindles (how small?), but I also work close and had the same experience, where the tool snapped, no catch, no nothin'... Just broke at the tang, had about 3/4 of an inch over the rest, and had the handle angle low. There wasn't a tug or a jerk, except in the downward direction as the tool broke and fell to the floor. I mean is it POSSIBLE that the tools were defective and would have broken under similar circumstances working on a pepper mill blank?

[Ken Fitzgerald]

George....I could be wrong....but..it's the cross grain situation that creates the problem. Using it to turn the outside edge of an end grain bowl...vase....where the grain is parallel to the bed.....I don't think that would be a problem. In the cross grain bowl, where the grain is perpendicular to the bed...that's where the problem arises.

I can' believe that CSUSA or a large number of turners would warn against this if it wasn't so.

I don't want to find out for myself! I won't use it in a cross grain situation!

[George Guadiane]

George....I could be wrong....but..it's the cross grain situation that creates the problem. Using it to turn the outside edge of an end grain bowl...vase....where the grain is parallel to the bed.....I don't think that would be a problem. In the cross grain bowl, where the grain is perpendicular to the bed...that's where the problem arises.

I can' believe that CSUSA or a large number of turners would warn against this if it wasn't so.

I don't want to find out for myself! I won't use it in a cross grain situation!

Thanks Ken,
I'm not arguing with anyone about what they say, and/or whether or not they know what they are talking about, I believe they do. I just wanted to clarify whether what I was doing was within the parameters of practical, safe use... From what you said, I was/am.
I continue to use the gouge as described. While I wasn't aware of the end grain thing, I have a BIGGER old carbon steel gouge that I use on side grain stuff with no problem. I really think you could lift a car with it, so I can't see how I could break it or injure myself.
So, now I have more information and the ability to work more safely.
I AM irked by what sounds like an accusation of a fool (me) wanting something for nothing. I would think that when I described the situation and circumstances to the vendors, they would have told me if I were at fault or being unreasonable in my request (they don't like to admit to selling defective things, even from China). I am IRKED at the idea that someone could divine that opinion from the information provided.

[Patrick Taylor]

While I wasn't aware of the end grain thing, I have a BIGGER old carbon steel gouge that I use on side grain stuff with no problem. I really think you could lift a car with it, so I can't see how I could break it or injure myself.

Think about petting a dog "against the grain", versus across the grain. (...at 1200 RPM! ) The forces on the gouge are a lot higher. Of course they increase with larger diameter, no matter what the orientation, but the end-grain forces are going directly against the material's stiffest and strongest direction twice per revolution.


With the "big gouge" just look for the weakest point and use good judgement.

[Doug Thompson]

Jim,
It's good you didn't get hurt. All tools will break at one time or another... everyone knows that. Take it back, get a new one from Woodcraft and continue turning like you've been.

I solved that problem with a 3/4 inch shank... vibration is zero and can be used on any bowl. The sad part is they can not be made at a affordable price so they are not sold.

Now this is a spindle roughing gouge!

[Hilel Salomon]

When I first started out, I assumed that a "roughing gouge" was just that, and tried working on a bowl. The gouge didn't break, but it sure took flight. Over time, I have learned that if I'm really roughing a hardwood piece that I can't bandsaw properly into shape, a 3/4" or 1" (crown makes a good one) bowl gouge really asbsorbs the punishment. Once it's relatively rounded out, smaller gouges will do fine. Also the sharper the gouge, the less punishment it will take during the initial process. Good luck, Hilel

[Bob Hallowell]

Doug, Nice gouge! Thats what I was trying to say about my p&n roughing gouge. It is cut from solid steel and has a 1/2 round tang - exactly same sze and shape as their bowl gouge. It's not going to break.

Bob

[Keith Christopher]

I think the base premise here is not that you did anything wrong, I think it's more of a "most spindle roughing gouges are not good for roughing out a bowl" The width of the gouge, (in the pic) _vs_ the thickness of the tang just couldn't hold up to the work. And the mass of the blank (probably not cored out) applied sufficent force which will most likely break most roughing gouges. I think I speak for everyone here who uses the spinny thing and other WW tools. Glad we don't get injured when these things happen, and mostly offering advice for fellow WWers to assist in them not getting hurt and work more productively.

could you do it this way ? Sure.
Would I do it this way ? Emphatically No.

[George Guadiane]

I think the base premise here is not that you did anything wrong, I think it's more of a "most spindle roughing gouges are not good for roughing out a bowl" The width of the gouge, (in the pic) _vs_ the thickness of the tang just couldn't hold up to the work. And the mass of the blank (probably not cored out) applied sufficent force which will most likely break most roughing gouges. I think I speak for everyone here who uses the spinny thing and other WW tools. Glad we don't get injured when these things happen, and mostly offering advice for fellow WWers to assist in them not getting hurt and work more productively.

could you do it this way ? Sure.
Would I do it this way ? Emphatically No.

Perfectly said!