Need New Tools. Room for Negotiating?

[Eric Garner]

I am relatively new to woodworking and have decided to take my interest to the next level and outfit a dedicated shop. Although I have made a few pieces of furniture (nothing complex some nightstands, a hutch, shelves, etc....), all my tools are contractor grade.

So, I am going to try and take the advice I have heard from many experienced woodworkers and avoid the path of upgrades and buy top quality machines that will last me my lifetime at the beginning. That being said, I still have a budget that I have to stick to.

My question is this: Is there any room for negotiating when purchasing new higher end tools? It seems from my research that Grizzly Tools are a good combination of quality and price. So, I am leaning towards making most of my purchases from them. Will they work with you on price if you make a large purchase? Of course large to me is probably peanuts to them. This is what I am looking at buying. All prices include the shipping price that is posted on their website. Thanks!

Total: $3,841
G0490 8" Jointer with Parallelogram Beds - $939.00
G0514X2 19" Extreme Bandsaw-3HP, Single Phase - $1,389.00
G7947 12 Speed 17" Floor Drill Press $519.00 *(I might end up sticking with my bench top drill press for now)
G0453 15" Planer $994.00

[Paul Johnstone]

I've never bought from Grizzley, so I'm not an expert, but I really doubt they will negotiate on price. I know they periodically have sales.

If you'd like to save money, watch Craig's List, the classified section on this board, and
local ebay postings. There's some good deals to be found if you are patient.
If I was you, I'd decide on the one or two things that I needed the most, and then order them.
Also, I'd like to point out that I have the 18" Rikon Bandsaw. It's at Woodcraft for 1149 right now.
If you can wait, they usually have a 10% off sale once or twice a year.
That will save you $200-300, and I doubt you'll miss the extra 19" of cutting width.
In fact, if I was you, I'd probably get the planer first, then the jointer, and then wait for the Rikon sale,
unless you have a project that really needs a big bandsaw that you want to get started right now.
Remember, you have years to accumulate tools. You don't need to buy everything at once, especially
if it puts a strain on the budget.

[Matt Meiser]

I've never bought a large machine from Grizzly, but I doubt you could negotiate with them since they are such high-volume. They do run sales (in the summer, I think?)

I've not had much luck negotiating pricing with the local tool store either--I'm pretty much under the impression that they don't make a lot of money on the sales and therefore don't have a lot of working room. When I've bought a lot of stuff at once, the did give me a small break. They are also usually pretty willing to do whatever it takes to keep a sale local--meaning that they'll come close enough to an Amazon.com price to make me buy local instead of dealing with shipping. Plus they'll deliver for free, have offered to pick up a machine that I thought needed service (but didn't after getting some one-on-one instruction on its adjustment,) and are there when I need support, consumables, etc. Lately, with our local economy especially, I'm on a buy local kick and try to support the local businesses as much as I can. That's nothing at all against Grizzly--I've seen a bunch of their stuff in person and have talked to the owners who were really happy with their purchases.

Having just bought a new drill press myself, I would take a look at the Steel City 20520. It has a few extra features over the Grizzly and sells for $469. Assuming you can get it locally, it will be about the same price as the Grizzly with tax. It also has a 5 year warranty and the support is supposed to be excellent according to my dealer and word on the 'net. He's really happy with the Steel City stuff despite being a long-time Delta dealer.

Make sure you buy consumables. Nothing is worse than hitting something with the jointer or planer and having to put your project on hold waiting for replacement knives to come. And you'll want some different/better blades for the bandsaw than what it comes with.

[Eric Larsen]

Craigslist.

Just like cars, Rolexes, etc., your new tools will depreciate the minute you take them home. Let someone else pay the depreciation.

Based on what I've seen on auction sites, Craigslist, etc., cabinet-grade power tools lose half their value the moment you hit the "on" switch the first time. Since they're so well made, I can't justify paying full price.

I'm in the same boat you are, except I'm not upgrading from Contractor grade. I'm upgrading from "crappy tools I bought in the Caribbean."

So far, I've spent $1,300 and I've picked up a Jet 13" planer/molder (that looks like it had three boards run through it total), a 10-year old Powermatic 66 (missing the foot-cam for the Accu-Fence -- $9.93) and a 20-year old Powermatic 60 jointer (which needed a set of gibs -- $25).

Every day, I use www.craigshelper.com to search a 400-mile radius from my house for the tools I want. (You'll need Firefox as a browser to use craigshelper.) Even if you have to rent a truck with a lift gate to pick up the tools, you'll still come in way under budget.

Cons:

1) There will likely be tune-up and set-up issues. (But there will also be similar issues with new tools.)

2) No warranty. If the motor blows 2 days after you set the tool up in your shop, you need to buy a new motor.

3) You'll likely end up with "Frankenshop" -- a Powermatic Saw, Jet lathe, Delta planer, etc. If aesthetics are that important, take some of the money you saved and powder-coat them all the same color.

Each of the tools I've bought has one of two stories -- either it's a woodworker who is retiring, or a shop that's closing. Try to buy from the retiring woodworker if you can, his tools are in better shape.

[Eric Garner]

Thanks for the advice. I've been checking out craigslist for a few weeks now. So far all that comes up in my area are either lower end tools or 3phase industrial grade tools that are way more than I need. I'll check out www.craigshelper.com and see if i can find anything outside my area. If I can save a grand then it's worth it to drive 4-8 hours to pick up the tool. Thanks again.

[Suanne Lippman]

To answer your simple question, no they won't negotiate with you. To answer your more complicated question that you didn't really ask, you don't need tools like that to do good work.
I have a used contractors saw, a used 6" jointer, etc. You can see what I made with them at:
http://wood.lippman.info/
They wouldn't have been any better with more expensive tools.

I did splurge on a 19" Grizzly bandsaw because they don't take up much more room than smaller saws, but cutting an 8" turning block on a little saw is a chore. But it doesn't improve your quality any.

[Pat Germain]

I have the ShopFox version of the 8" jointer. I bought it from Bibbtool.com and got a pretty good deal. You might check there. The ShopFox from BibbTool was less expensive than the identical Grizzly versions I saw elsewhere.

I think it's great that people can find good used power tools in their area. However, consider yourself lucky. I've looked high and low in my area and all I ever find is low grade junk and the rare nice, used tool at $20 below new list price: firm. Of course, I'll keep looking, but if I hadn't bought some new tools, I'd still be dreaming.

[Clint Winterhalter]

Eric,
You might want to find out if you have any large equipment dealers in your city. (I'm not talking WoodCraft or Rockler / but it would'nt hurt to check with them too). The place I shop for the big stuff at will take trade ins. They sell'em at a decent price. I bought a new table saw from them several months ago for $1100. They had a inventory clearance about a month ago and had them marked down to $879.. Good luck with the Hunt!

Clint

[Brandon Shew]

What - no table saw? I think that you'd be better off w/ a table saw than a band saw initially. Buy used and you can get all of them.

[Eric Garner]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm going to continue looking at craigslist and will try to find some dealers in my area that sell used equipment.

Brandon - I am planning on getting a new table saw, but I only listed the possible Grizzly purchases. Right now I would really love to buy a Powermatic PM2000, but who knows. My next project will be making some additional cabinets for a kitchen remodel we're about to start. So, a nice tablesaw is really on the top of my list. Right now I have an old $200 Hitachi that's just about burned up from ripping too many 2X4's.

[Mickey Finn]

I think the man is being led astray here... too many people saying "no", and no one is saying "try".

I say TRY. What can it hurt to get on the phone and ask?

The worse that can happen is that you hear "no"... bummer, but you're still alive and well and standing on Planet Earth.

The best that can happen? Well, let's see... perhaps you actually get a true package deal! Or maybe reduced shipping, or maybe some free accessories... you get the picture. (if it works though, have your wallet ready to strike, there's no "I'll think about it" allowed.)

These days, you never know who's going to pick up the phone on the other end, what kind of friendly mood they may be in, or what kind of internal directives that they may have been instructed to follow. Many companies have "off sheet pricing" in order to move product... that list can change daily.

As Wayne Gretsky said, "You miss 100% of the shots that you don't take."

[Brad Townsend]

I HAVE ordered large tools from Grizzly and it went well. I think most who have within the past several years would say likewise.

I think the suggestion of going with the Steel City drill press was a good one. More value for the money. For the planer, I would also suggest considering this:

http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1021X2

About $500 more money, but if your talking about a lifetime investment, the advantages of the spiral cutterhead are certainly worth it. No blades to resharpen and superior performance on highly figured woods.

[Mike Null]

I like your idea of a large bandsaw. That's the one tool I bought undersized and regretted it.

As for the other tools I'm a fan of Craig's list. I'd go for a Powermatic saw and scale back on the planer and jointer. If I were to do it over I'd probably not buy a planer and would go for a drum sander instead.