Grizzly G0514x vs Laguna LT16

[Chas Richter]

I had a very early Grizzly table saw and had issues with the quality but from what I have seen, they have come a long way and have no doubts about the stability of the company.

Have you considered something like the Grizzly G0636X?

[John Karam]

Chas- Sadly my budget can't extend that far. I wanted to spend around $1000 but decided to move up a few notches to make sure I had a capable machine for the things I'd like to do. I'm hoping the G0514x (or x2) or the Lt16 will suffice.

[Jeff Norri]

Below is a very long review of the G0513X I did on another forum shortly after I picked one up. I know this is a smaller version of what you are looking at, but other then size these saw are very close. I would buy the grizz again. One thing you'll see in my review, is that one of my woodworking buddies had the lugana, and after seeing the grizz in action he would take a mulligan if he could and buy the grizz instead. The Laguna he bought was the floor model at a wood show, that he picked it up on the last day of the show. He wasn't too happy with it as he found lots of littel things damaged missing and not set up correctly. Lugana did get him new parts where needed.

I have also "had" to deal with Grizz costumer service when I bought a jointer and the jointer fence and the fenc was not as flat as I would like, one call and a new one was on the way out.





"Here is the short review on my new Grizzly G0153X 17" Bandsaw. A also did a much longer write up for http://www.phoenixwood.ca/forum/. The Phoenix is a Canadian specific wood forum so my write up there has allot more info about the trip to Bellingham from vancouver, duty, border crossings, breakfast at Big Al's grizzly tools in general and price comparisons to products in Canada.

Pre- Amble over on to the review:

The G0513X is the improved version of Grizzly's G0513, the additions to this saw are cast iron wheel, a higher blade speed (3500), a larger table, and improved blade guards. In last years Wood magazine review of 16" -18" bandsaws the G0513 was awarded top value, with the only knock against it, is that it could use cast wheels and a higher blade speed for resaw work. I doubt it is coincidental that the X version addressed these Knocks.

Features:
Deluxe cast iron fence with extruded aluminum re-saw fence
Miter gauge
4" dust port x 2
Quick change blade release/tensioner
Blade tension indicator
Larger 24" x 17" table
Micro adjusting geared table
Cast iron wheels
Height scale measurement
Blade tracking window
Includes 1/2" blade

Specifications:
Motor: 2 HP, 110V/220V, single-phase, TEFC capacitor start induction, 60 Hz, pre-wired to 220V
Amps: 20/10
RPM: 1725
Power transfer: Belt drive
Precision ground cast iron table
Table size: 24" x 17" x 1 1/2" thick
Table tilt: 5 deg. left, 45 deg. Right
Floor to table height: 37 1/2"
Cutting capacity/throat: 16 1/4" left of blade
Maximum cutting height: 12"
Blade size: 131 1/2" long
Blade sizes available: 1/8" - 1" wide
2 blade speeds: 1600 & 3500 FPM
Wheels: fully balanced cast iron with polyurethane tires
Blade guides: ball bearing with full enclosure protection
Bearings: sealed and permanently lubricated
Overall size: " H x 30"W x 20"D
Approximate shipping weight: 414 lbs.


The full spec sheet can be found here: http://images.grizzly.com/grizzlycom/specs...s/g0513x_ds.pdf


When I first saw this saw I was first stuck by the size of it! it is a beast, and the extra large table even gave it a bit more presence. Along for our trip, was a Laguna 16" owner, who's first reaction at seeing the G0513X and giving it the once over was that the Grizzly was every bit as good as his saw, high praise indeed!



When I got the saw home setup was rather easy, one crank knob needed to be put in place and the table needed to be cleaned and bolted in place. It maybe took 30 minutes to get this done. This saw also comes with out a plug. I was expecting this and had a 20amp 220 plug ready to go.

The saw was setup extremely well right out of the crate, I did not need to make any adjustments what so ever. Very sweet! And once I had the saw somewhat leveled (still could do a better job of this) I balanced a Canadian Nickel on the saw, fired up the saw and it stayed in place! This is extremely good news as usually the "nickel test" is done with a US nickel, a US nickel is faceted so I would assume it must balance much easier do to more surface area in contact with the table top. It is really re-assuring to know that if some reason I need store loose change on this saw, I don't need to worry about it falling over. (:



My next project was to get the dust collection set up. This saw has two 4" DC ports. I have a 5" duct work in my shop hooked up to a 2hp dust collector. I split the 5" hose to two 4" hoses, but left a 4" blast gate on the bottom hose so I could control the airflow between the top and bottom dust ports. I thought that I would want more airflow to the top port. Once I had everything hooked up I fired up the dc, when I had high airflow going to the top port and the bottom port choked off about half way I got a very annoying whistle. A little inspection and I could see that the top port was starved for air, as all the air needs to flow through two small holes. When I opened up the bottom blast gate more the whistle went away as the airflow in the top port was slightly reduced. I think reduced airflow up top is not an issue as there is only so much "make up" air. In practice the dual port dust collection picked up 99% of the dust in the bottom housing. If you had a higher flowing dc then mine and you got the whistle, it seems to be easily remidied by leaving the door open by about 1/32" (it is still latched just not cranked tight all the way). Also it seemed to be a very limited range of airflow that caused the noise, so a slight adjustment to the blast gate would take care of it.





When it came to cutting, this saw preformed up to my high expectations, in short, it cuts anything I have been able to through at it. The largest cuts I made were 11"of oak. I used the stock ½" blade that came with the saw and had no problems at all. I also gave a 1" 3tpi blade a try and the saw cut even easier. I also used a 3/16" blade and I was able to set it up with no problems in the massive double ball bearing blade guides. Despite pushing hard, I could not stall or bog the motor with any blade in any wood I tried.

Pictured are the bowl blanks I carved out on my test run and some cherry I resawed. As I didn't have allot of hardwood around the shop that I was willing to saw up for fun, I resawed this cherry both on edge and on end. The saw handled each thickness with ease and left a nice finish.





High Points with this saw:

The Value of this saw has to be my top high point you get a hell of allot of saw for the money! This saw also has almost every feature you would expect in 16"-18" saw. Tensioning blades is easy to do thanks to an easy access blade tensioning crank, a massive spring, a window and gauge to tell you what tension you have, and a crank arm that instantly releases tension when the saw is not in use or when changing blades. You have a window to view tracking with the doors are closed. The fact the saw comes with cast wheels and higher then average blade speed are well worth the extra $100 you pay for this saw over the standard G0513. Changing blades is easily done, all that most people need to do is open both doors 180*, remove the table insert and leveling pin, and release the tension crank. For those of us that have this saw placed in a position that you cannot open the door 180*, you have to lift the door off its hinges. This only adds about 30 seconds to changing blades as the doors simply lifts straight up and you don't need to unscrew anything or fuss around. The blade guard is on rack in pinion gears, the European style blade guards are easy to adjust (with hex wrench for most guides, but a knob for the rear guide under the table.) The Table itself is on rack and pinion gears and is larger then most at 17"x24". The extra large table size is a bit of gimmick though, as they have not really put the size where it matters. The additional 7" of table fills the gap between the left of the table and the frame on most saws. I would prefer to have 7" more of outfeed/infeed table myself as I find I rarely need additional support inside the blade. The fence is also better then most stock BS fences I have encountered, it has a cast iron body, and aluminum face that can by used in 6" high mode or 1/2" low mode. The fence does have a drift alignment, and also has ruler on the fence. The fence face does not have slot for jigs, or a ripsaw. But as the fence face does go on via a t SLOT nut, it would be rather easy to retrofit different faces or jigs. The miter gauge is steel and accurate -it is as good as any stock one I have seen. Grizzly also has some of the nicest branding on their tools beautiful raised metal logos. All and all a very sweet saw!

Low Spots:
The biggest low spot is the trunions are made of stamped steel, they look out of place compared to the rest of the saw and are defiantly the weakest part of this saw.




The next two low spots are some paint issues I had. The lower cast iron wheel and pulley seemed to have a slight amount of rust on them when I unpacked the saw. I cleaned the area up and waxed the wheels. As the area that had the issue is behind the wheel, I can see how it would have been shielded from a good solid coat of paint. I'll keep an eye on it and repaint if needed. The second paint issue was on the face of the cast iron fence base. In fact the paint coveridge was so poor here that I could not decide if they did a bad job painting it or that it was not suppose to be painted at all and they did a bad job masking (: Easy enough to fix. A friend also bought a G0513x at the same time as I did, and his saw shared these paint issues.






If I was going to make this saw perfect:
Beyond fixing the low spots, other additions I would make to this saw if I was asked to redesign it are, a foot brake! It takes 28 seconds for the cast wheels to stop. I DIDN'T list this as low light as a foot brake is not found on any saw in this size range unless you look at Laguna 16hd (with 5hp and twice the price - so not really apples to apples). The second thing I would add is a micro switch on the blade tensioning lever so the saw would not start when the tension is released – enough said. I would also ship this saw with and extra set of blade guide frames. When running very thin blades I prefer to run hardwood guides instead of ball bearing guides. With an extra guide frames I could slip the new guides in when I change out blades. I found this "dual guide" set-up worked well on my old saw which out of a fluke came with two sets of guide frames. I may pick up an extra set of frames depending on the cost. Last thing I would do was add an over the table dust collection solution. okay I don't know of any saw that has one, but it would be nice to have.

Conclusion:
I am very happy with my new G0513X 17" like all great tools I love using it so much so I am considering using book matched pickets on a fence I need to build this weekend!

[John Karam]

Thank you Jeff for your review of the go513x, I really appreciate it. It was a good, thoughtful read.

I'm having some conversations with laguna and grizzly about their respective tools. All the above thoughts have given me more of what to expect.

[Dan Lautner]

16" wheels are too small for a quality resaw blade. 18" wheels are minimum and 20" or larger is best. I would look at the 18" or 20" Aggy. Eagle tools checks the saws ships them properly no BS no dirty used car salesman like laguna.

Dan

[John Karam]

I talked to the laguna rep today, he told me for resawing purposes, pick the saw with the most cast iron so its the sturdiest. He said for general purpose work either saws will suite me well. (My third time speaking with him and he hasn't come off as the "typical" laguna rep).

Now i know what the grizzly is made of, but its hard to tell what the laguna is made of, he said basically anything that could be cast iron is on their saw. Can anyone elaborate on that?

[John Davidson]

I think that would be the wheels and the table and table support assembly Maybe even part of the upper wheel tracking assembly is made from CI. The saw bodies are made from folded, stamped and boxed sheet steel welded together

[Steve Milito]

16" wheels are too small for a quality resaw blade. 18" wheels are minimum and 20" or larger is best.

Dan

Can you explain why?

[John Karam]

I thought I would update this thread with what I ended up choosing.

I picked the Laguna over the Grizzly. My main reason was because I liked the guide system and managed to get it shipped to my door for $1400.

However, with that said it was not the most pleasant experience working with them. I ended up calling and leaving about 4 messages trying to get in contact with the Laguna rep I was working with, over the course of a week. He never called me back. I ended up calling and talking to a random person just to place my order. At which point they said it was a show price and we cant give it to you yada yada yada the price has risen since. Well I laid it out to them that the only reason I didn’t order it "on time" was because the rep I was working with would never call me back.

After a bit of talking, the sales manager told the man on the phone that "a deal is a deal" so I got it. He did try to sell me some Resaw King blades and told me A: “We aren’t making any money on this deal” and B: “I guess you won’t be buying any of the Resaw King Blades because you have proven to be cheap.” (The latter is not his exact words, but the point of what he was saying)

I asked them to email me a reciept, never got sent. Week later I called them again and got them to email it to me. I then waited from the beginning of November until mid-December for delivery, they charged my credit card immediately though, which some people dislike (It was fine with me). After waiting into December I called them again to ask what was going on with delivery. He told me he was actually "about to call me" to say its coming to my door next week. I then got a call that next week from UPS telling me I am getting a delivery the next day and it showed up.

Everything was fine, system runs but the fence was missing its locking handle, called up Laguna, ended up talking to the rep I originally worked with (who hadn't returned my calls). He had it sent out to me; it’s in the mail now.

While they were nice and respectful to me on the phone, I cringe at ever having to call them again because it feels like I’m not “good enough” for them or something. Would I buy their saw again? Maybe, depends on how this one works out of course. I haven’t had a chance to really use it. All I can say is the sparking from the ceramic guides IS unnerving because I don’t know how much sparking is “normal.”

On another note, every time I spoke with a Grizzly rep, they were overly nice; almost too nice it was annoying. But I applaud their efforts. The jointer I purchased from them had a handle that broke off the first time I touched it, called them and they are sending it to me, it’s in the mail as well. J

[Justin Bukoski]

I have the 514x and I routinely cut 1/16" veneers. The key is a good blade no matter what saw you use. Its a great saw and I don't regret buying it for a second. I'll probably upgrade to the G0636 later this year because I want the 16" resaw height.

[Lee Hingle]

I don't have either bandsaw, but I have dealt with Laguna and Grizzly both with purchases, so I will comment on that.

You will definitely be sorry IF you have a problem with the Laguna - someone else said they were "underwhelmed" by the service - that's an understatement. However, if you have no problems then you will never need to contact them and it won't be an issue.

If you can physically drive to Grizzly (most of us can't without a 2 day trip) I wold seriously consider going in that direction. If you have a problem, you could drive the machine back to them to return (worst case scenario). I don't think it would ever come to that.

As for the difference in motors - I personally love buying american made, and I love Baldor motors. However, Grizzly's motors are made in the best motor facility in Taiwan. I have a 5hp single phase on a Grizzly 20" planer that absolutely screams through everything I throw at it. The motor is VERY strong and I doubt you would ever have a problem - and if you do - you are within driving distance to Grizzly. They have machine shops and motor re-winding departments in all 3 locations, IIRC.

Good luck with your purchase, and let us know what you decide.

[Eric Garner]

I have the G0514X2 and love it. 3hp motor never bogs down. I just cut some 1/16" X 8" Poplar veneers today with no problems. I love the re-saw fence. The larger table is really nice for cutting curves.

Blade changes take a little time, but I'm ok with that.

[Tim Marks]

I've looked over Grizzlys Bandsaws this past week and still would purchase the Laguna if I had to do it over again, IMO the Baldor motor alone is worth the difference in price.

I think the Baldor 3HP motor retails for $570, you can pick it up for $350-400 if you hunt around. So you could buy the 513X2, sell the motor on ebay and replace it with a Baldor, and still be $$$ ahead. I wouldn't bother; I haven't fried a motor yet on any machines, and I only got one Leeson in my shop.

$1675-$950 = $725 (not counting S&H, which I am sure would spread the difference more). Yeah, I realize the OP got a special show deal that makes this not quite as much of a savings.

But hearing about the CS issues and sales issues pretty much prices me out of the Laguna market. My time is to valuable to waste talking to salesmen who are a PIA.

[Lee Hingle]

John,
You learned a valuable lesson:

LAGUNA REPS ONLY WANT TO TALK TO YOU BEFORE YOU SEND THEM YOUR MONEY

Good luck getting them to answer the phone otherwise. I actually had to lie and give a fake name and say I was interested in buying a piece of equipment so my salesman would pick up the phone. Sad. Sorry you didn't get the Grizz.
Lee

[Al Garay]

John,

What did you end up doing? I would have voted Grizzly as well.
Though, if the Minimax MM16 was on sale, that's a different story.

Al