the best tools or good enough?

[Dave Hammelef]

I have read the concept so many times "buy the best tool you can afford". But it does not work for a starting wood worker, like myself, who is trying to equip his shop. If I stick to this axiom I would more likely quit wood working as the price tag associated with just getting started is beyond a hobbyists range.

Zahid Naqvi

Lets see the axiom " Buy the best tool YOU can AFFORD"

so how is it out of your price range. All the axiom is saying is dont kid yourself if you can afford a cabinet saw, but think you will save some money and just get a Contractor saw, you will be kicking yourself in a few years cause you should have gotten the Cabinet Saw. If you can only afford a tabletop unit BUY IT. yes latter on you might upgrade, but you wont be kicking yourself cause you bought all you could at the time.

Another VERY important concept when starting is to only buy the tool you NEED to do a job, and skip that gadgets (most of them are not worth it). I have long wanted a Band saw, but never have had a job that needed on, by waiting they are getting less expensive and better made. When I do need one I will buy one, in the meantime I have bought alot of other tools that I use.

[scott spencer]

Hi Zahid - It looks like you've got alot of anwers already, but I'll add my two cents.

The heart of my shop is the TS, jointer, and planer. The TS is a GI contractor with a Biese fence (pretty good in it's category). The jointer is a Griz 1182. (smallish, but of adequate quality). The planer is a Delta 22-560. (again, not the best, but it does the job). For $1200-$1300, a beginner graduated to an intermediate using those tools. It's not likely that the budget will allow for upgrades anytime soon, nor do I feel it necessary for the time being.

Buy decent quality tools where precision matters....TS/fence/blade, jointer....maybe BS. A decent router and table are a reasonable investment... a Freud or Hitachi will do a good job in a home made RT....buy decent bits.

A decent DC is can be purchased for < $400. My experiences with inexpensive clamps (like the HF bar clamps) have been pretty good...seems like a logical place to save some $. I also think you can get by with a modest DP and palm sander....the best will have to wait.

A good bench is a must...you can build your own for $100-$200.

The most important tool is you. Just try to buy tools that you need and that are worth the price. Buying junk is a frustrating waste of money. Maybe someday I'll have a dream shop, but for now the thing I like best about my shop is that it's "my shop"!

[Diane Maluso]

I don't need to have the best tools there are just so long as they aren't so hideous that I need to fight them. There is nothing so joy-killing for me as having to constantly readjust a tool because it won't hold a set, having to set up a supposed-to-be-square clamping job a zillion times because the clamps don't work right, having to wrestle with the toolrest on a lathe because it won't clamp down tightly, having to sand the bejeezus out of something because the blade wobbled. But mostly, I just try to buy tools that are good enough as to be safe. I don't need the best but I want to be safe and I want to enjoy this hobby. It is, for me, after all a hobby and so I want it to be fun. So I got a Jet cab saw which is good enough and safe enough. I got a Lee Valley block plane which feels so very good to use, I got Bessey clamps which help me make things square when I'm clamping up without a helper, and I got a Nova lathe which is solid and strong enough to help me turn decent bowls. I buy the quality I need to make woodworking something I can do happily and safely.

Happy shavings.

Diane

[Allen Bookout]

There is one danger that I do not think has been discussed and that is in buying a tool that will just do the job. Thirty seven years ago I bought a Craftsman 10" radial arm saw. It just "did the job" but just barely and never very well (In truth some things it would not do that it shoud have). Since it did I just kept it all of those years and suffered from ruined wood, smoke from burning wood, danger from jamed and kicked out wood and subpar cuts not to mention hours of frustration. It is a wonder that I have not been out a fortune on mental treatment. I am sure that I have been out many dollars more by bad cuts than if I had come up with the money to buy a pretty good saw to start with. Just this year it finally disintegrated beyond repair and I was forced to buy a new saw and I made sure that I got a good one this time. Man - am I happy now.

After my experience I think that you are better off either by buying a tool so bad that you junk it right away or waiting a little bit and buying one that you are sure will do the job without diving you CRAZY. The next problem is figuring out what level that is but be sure that you do.

You may want to discount this advice as I realize that having that old saw for all of these years has affected my mentality and I may not be steering you straight --------- but it sure is something to think about.

Note: I should be recovered in another thirty seven years.

Allen

[Jeff Sudmeier]

This topic strikes a nerve with me. As others have said, if I had waited to buy a 24" planer, 16" jointer, 12" table saw, Cyclone dust collector and countless other tools that I would love to outfit my shop with someday, I wouldn't have woodworked for the last two years.

I cringe when I read someone post about should I get this table saw or jointer or planer, my budget is $500. Then 12 other guys come on the topic and say no!! For $1200 you can get this great tool!! Yeah but the guy would have to wait another two years to save for it (Example exagurated for clarity)

You know what I made my first real project with (the blanket chest)? A GASP!! 6" benchtop Craftsman (another gasp!) jointer, 12" benchtop craftsman planer W/O cutterhead lock and the craftsman jobsite saw!! Ohh my, how did I do it?

Very easily in fact!! Just two months ago I upgraded to a 8" DJ20 jointer, is it sweet?? YES!!! For sure!! Do I regret getting the 6" benchtop first NO!! I bought it for $200 and sold it for $100. I am sure that I got $100 of use out of that tool.

So I guess what I am saying is this. Get the tool that will do the job, you will have to learn the best technique for the job, because the cheaper tools are less forgiving then my dj20. Once you decided this hobby is for you, upgrade your tools one by one and get 1/2 the value out of the old ones.

The question you have to ask yourself is this, Did the money I lost equal a lot of fun on my part?? The $100 I "lost" on the jointer was well worth the fun I had in the shop during the time I had it! I have dropped $100 in a lot worse ways

All this said, I do have to say that this is the best forum for helping new woodworkers to find the right tool for them. The upgrade posts I was refering to was mainly from another forum. Without this forum, I would not have been able to learn all I have so quickly. Thanks guys!

[Kelly C. Hanna]

You're doing fine Zahid...none of us started out with the best tools and most as Dennis has said still don't have the top of the heap. As long as you don't find yourself wasting too much time and moeny replacing tools, you'll do fine. As with estimates on work done at your house....never take the lowest or highest bids! That means if you need a tool, don't buy the cheapest one just on price. Make sure there's a modicum of quality there.

My first shop was full of tools I no longer have....they got me started though and I made a living with them....course things are much better now, but the most expenzive tool in my shop is a Grizzly 1023 TS.

[Zahid Naqvi]

Its alive! I thought this thread was dead and burried. It's amazing to see how much I have learned about tools since I originally posted this thread, and most of the credit goes to SMC and Dennis Peacock.

My current philosopy is; The difference between low quality and high quality tools is time. I can do everything (almost) on a contractor grade table saw that a cabinet saw can, but I have to spend twice the time to make sure everything is lined up and straight. As long as I realize the limitation of my tools and don't ask them to do what they can't I am ok.

[Matt McCormick]

Zahid,

Sounds like you pretty much have got it. Some times, Quality equals higher performance, sometimes quality means longer life, and other times it means less work. For some our hobby is about fine tools and shops and what they can do. For others it's all about the fine furniture or projects that they make. Still others it's the act and work of using their hands to craft something that seems to come from within themselves. For most of us it is all the above. I am new to woodworking, but I am a toolmaker by trade (microsurgical tools). The best advice I could give you is, do every thing you can to understand the process that you are going to attempt. IF you are going to drill a hole understand what it takes to drill a hole the way you want it drilled.<O></O>

Then go to harbor freight or some where and look at the drills. IF it is a drill press grab the spindle and feel for slop on the $100 one then go to the $300 version feel the difference ask yourself if that would affect what a drill does and does it matter to you. <O></O>

It may or may not. I bought a GROZ plane the other day, what a pile of stuff this thing was. But after 2 hours of work it works as well as I can use a plane at this time in my experience. But 200 hours will never make it as fine as Lie-whatever. But until the day I have the money.... its Groz for me!!!! <O></O>

[Tyler Howell]

[QUOTE=Matt McCormick]Zahid, Welcome to the creek Matt. Great bunch of folks here. If you look through the threads you will see our buddy Zahid has done well with the good advice. Like to here more about your profession and maybe see some picture. Not only do we like pix but insist on them.
Glad to have you wading with the best.

[Jim Dannels]

Has little to do with anyone elses budget. Only you can decide what you can afford. As for myself, I can`t count on fingers of both hands the BD & Skill saws and drills I have owned. For one thing they were cheap and no great loss when they slipped off a roof and either passed or failed the Bounce Test.

But I had a change of heart about 10 yrs ago, anf found that I when I pay more for tools than I can justify at my skill level. I take better care of them.
Not once has my Porter Cable saw been lowered off a roof by the cord

[Bob Nieman]

I pay a lot of attention to the "Best Value" in magazine reviews. It has been a slow start, but I finally feel like I can start doing some stuff. I *love* my Ridgid Table saw. I don't see how spending more would have been a good idea (my shop is VERY small and the mobile base is VERY nice). I'd like to try some better tools though before I consider upgrading

I splurged on a PC router after my 20 year old Craftsman wouldn't hold a bit in place anymore and it has been heavenly (although reviews of that particular model are mixed). Next up to upgrade will be a jig saw (my old one is useless) or RO sander (it is a "best value", but there has got to be a better one out there). I still have to spend money on stuff that isn't fun--a dust controller (once I figure out where to put it and how to wire it separately) and some wet stones, more clamps, lighting, maybe a floor. (I hated having to buy a dishwasher last weekend, I could have used the money for so many other things)

There are two harbor freight machines in my shop, a bench top drill press that was a "gift" and a mortiser I got at an auction and haven't tried to use yet. I already know I will want to replace both, but not until the right projects come along. I keep showing my wife projects from this forum and telling her that "I could do that, if only I had a ...."
I just need to finish a few more projects with what I have and maybe that will work...

[Maurice Ungaro]

Everyone has made some good points. Most of all, I'd like to state that "Best" may be best for YOU at the time. My first chisels were a set of Marples Blue Chips...Still have them, still use them. I have a couple of Swedish steel chisels that I really like, but the old Marples still do what I bought them to do.

I have a 14" bandsaw, and it's a dream..Sure, there are larger saws out there, but this was absolutely the best one I could afford.

[Steve Cox]

It all depends on what you're going to do. Having said that, my personal philosophy is to buy professional quality tools though probably not "the best". Case in point: I have a 6" Bosch RO sander that I use with a Bosch hose and a Shop-Vac with a HEPA filter for dust control. Overkill for some people but cheap compared to Festool. It does a very good job for me though. I started out with a Craftsman and when it bit the dust I bought the Bosch. After my first set of tools (Skil, Craftsman etc.) I have never bought one with the intention of replacing it. I have purchased used, reconditioned and closeout tools to get ones I could afford. I research the devil out of every purchase to make sure I don't make mistakes (and I still do ). IMHO It is always better to buy more tool than you need today knowing that it won't need to be replaced later (want is another story ). My first true woodworking project was a pair of Shaker end tables done in quilted maple. I had two Disston saws (crosscut and rip) that I bought for $10 at an antique store, a set of Buck Bros chisels (cheap ones), a sander, a plane, a planer, and a backsaw. Took a while but I got it done. Boy did I learn a lot during that project! It still amazes me when I look at them today. I gues the point of all this is that it's true, buy the best you can afford, it saves money later on. But it's also true, you don't need the best in order to do excellent work.

[Steve Aiken]

I like Jeff's advice:

So I guess what I am saying is this. Get the tool that will do the job, you will have to learn the best technique for the job, because the cheaper tools are less forgiving then my dj20. Once you decided this hobby is for you, upgrade your tools one by one and get 1/2 the value out of the old ones.

I started into WW'g seriously 4 years ago. I got a night job delivering pizza to save up some money for tools. I built my first project with solid pine, surfaced on all 4 sides at the mill, since I didn't have a planer or jointer. Ouch $$$. I gradually bought the tools I needed, and I was fortunate enough to find quality used tools at a fraction of the price of the new glossy tools. Delta Cabinet saw; Delta planer; Delta benchtop jointer; Craftsman benchtop drill press.

Although I'd have loved to buy the shiny new "Best Tool" as pronounced by the forums and magazine editors, this strategy allowed me to accummulate the tools I needed in a fraction of the time, with a fraction of the money. Because I bought pre-owned excellent quality tools, I have the best of both worlds "quality" and "inexpensive."

I was not able to find some of the tools I needed in the used market. I bought a 10" Makita LS1013 and a Porter-Cable pancake compressor/ air nailer combo kit. Earlier on, I bought the Porter-cable biscuit joiner new. In these cases where I designated money on the new tool, I did alot of research and picked the "Best Value" tool. I would have liked to have the Lamelo BJ, but the Porter-Cable gave me most of the features, fit and finish for a price I could afford.

Same with the hand tools....veritas block plane, Marples Blue chisel set. I bought a Dowlmax jig when I needed a really good doweling jig.

I also bought some cheap tools. I bought a Canadian Tire brand cordless drill. Big mistake, cause it fried up just after the 3year warranty and I couldn't even get parts for it--but I probably got my money's worth out of it. I couldn't have afforded anything better at the time, so I'd have had to bore holes with a brace-bit otherwise. Later, I replaced it with a Ryobi cordless drill. Not the best, but what I could afford for this tool.

I've picked up a few tools at yard sales and flea markets.

Sorry for the ramble. My point is that when you are cash-flow-challenged, you need to use many strategies to get "the best tools you can afford." The tools you end up with will change through the years.

I'm hoping and dreaming that I will be able to upgrade some of my tools through the coming years as the odd bonus or tax refund comes along, but in the meanwhile I will goat over my modest collection. Most importantly I will keep using these tools and learning from all of you so I will become a true craftsman.

Steve

[CPeter James]

I have lots of nice commercial grade tools. I pick them up when someone else is upgrading. They may require a little cleaning up and may a new bearing or belt and they are as good as new and maybe even better than new as it might be a good made in USA model. I usually pay less than 50 cents on the dollar cost of new. Sometimes there are some dents and scratches, but that doesn't affect the way that they work ( and it makes strangers think that you are an old hand at this).

CPeter