Is Woodworking Dying out?

[Brian Gumpper]

I always thought those shows should be more factory represented. While it may be too costly for each manufacturer to do the roadtrip, I'm sure they can work deals with local dealers to bring their floor stock down there or make deals to bring in new machines at demo pricing.

It's great to pick up a pack of acid brushes or watch some demos, but I like to see what I don't have access to and that's a large variety of equipment to look at. And whoever brings the machines can certainly sell a bunch of them at demo prices.

Problem wih shows is people know Peachtree are going to be the largest display and that's not what I go for (nothing against Peachtree, just not what I'm looking for at a show).

With that said, I go anyway because it's all there is locally.

[Heather Thompson]

Heather, Thank you for your post. I was especially intrigued by the Rousseau quote. That led via google to Doug Stowe's blog, a very interesting site, which I've suggested to a number of my next-generation family members involved in various aspects of education.

Don,

I sent you a private e-mail, but I thought it may be worth posting this and including a link to Doug Stowe's blog so others may view as well. If Educational Sloyd were brought back into our schools, attendance at woodworking shows would be a non-issue, and I believe many other issues that plague our society would be relieved also. http://wisdomofhands.blogspot.com/

Heather

[Heather Thompson]

Heather, Thank you for your post. I was especially intrigued by the Rousseau quote. That led via google to Doug Stowe's blog, a very interesting site, which I've suggested to a number of my next-generation family members involved in various aspects of education.

Don,

I sent you a private e-mail, but thought it may be a good idea to post this message so others may be able to view Doug's blog as well. Unfortunately my last post never appeared, so I will try this again for the benefit of others that may find it interesting. Doug's blog is called "wisdomofhands.", then it is blogspot.com If I have just violated a SMC rule, I do apologize, this is just appropriate information to be shared by the group. I believe that if Sloyd were to be reintroduced into our schools, attendance at woodworking shows would be a non-issue, and many other issues that plague our society would be resolved as well.

Heather

[John Viola]

Jium, I remember the old American Woodworker shows at the Ft. Washington Center. Those were good shows. I miss them-none I've been to sicne can compare.

[Steve Clardy]

I've attended the KC show about 16 years in a row now.
Been to the St. Louis show twice.
Lasts years KC show was disappointing.
Half the vendors that are normally there.
TWC pulled out as a vendor. Heck, they were half of it I guess. A huge vendor.
Attendance was down. Less selections.

I'll still go though. A day off, and we usually have a breakfast meet somewhere before the show.

[Brian Kent]

Does anybody have industry stats on tool sales?

Dewayne - great comeback!

Comment on educational stuff: Subjects like math and physics, reading and writing, chemistry and sociology… all get grounded and used in the so-called extras, like industrial arts, music, fine arts, and sports. We need it all.

[Don C Peterson]

Denny, the problem with the schools isn't as simple as that. Not to get into a big political debate, but the shop classes weren't removed and replaced by computers. The shop classes were phased out in schools because the politicians "grade" schools based solely on the academic programs. In most states high schools are rated by the percentage of the graduates that go on to college. In the past there were two different programs in high schools, academic and "trade school." In most places the trac for "trade school" has vanished. Tere are some excellent exceptions to this trend, but very few and far between. This new stress solely on academics has been one of the biggest factors in many of the problems we have with the youth of today. Not all of our kids are "college material" but to graduate from high school today they have to "prove" that they are. There are no other programs left for them. We force them into academic programs with a "promise" that they will make a lot of money because they graduate from college. Then we wonder why so many "drop out" and those who "make it" demand high paying jobs.

Agreed.

But unlike government schools, our school will always have a woodshop available to our students because we homeschool our kids! We don't care what absurd measuring sticks idiot politicians use to judge how miserably their schools (not the schools they send their kids to, mind you) are failing.

So far my kids are a bit young but our 8 year old son, our 8 year old daughter and 5 year old son have all expressed a desire to learn woodworking. Our 1 year old daughter hasn't expressed an interest yet, but I'll give her a few more years before I give up hope...

[Jim Kenney]

Since I live in San Mateo here is my personal story for what its worth. I first attended the WW show in San Mateo about 4 years ago, when I was just starting out in woodworking. That time the show had a great buzz, the halls were crowded and everything was new to me. After missing a couple of shows I attended the show last year in both San Mateo and Pleasanton CA in November 2006 and April 2007, respectively.

Much to my disappointment, the San Mateo show in 2006 was much smaller than I had remembered and the Pleasanton show smaller still. The main reason I liked the first show was that I saw a number of smaller vendors selling products I might not find through the traditional channels. In the more recent shows these vendors seemed to have dropped out. I discussed this with one of the vendors and he told me that the smaller guys just cannot get enough sales via the shows to justify the expense. After having seen the recent shows, I skipped the San Mateo show this year because I figured I was not likely to see anything particularly new, not due to any lack of interest in woodworking.

Personally, I think the internet has made these shows much less relevant than they might have been in the past. So much of the information that one might have found at these shows is now available over the internet. I agree that nothing can beat a real hands on demonstration of a tool's capabilities, but I have also learned the hard way (as I am sure that many of you have as well) that your results at home often vary significantly from what you see at the show!

[Will Blick]

Some great posts.... as with any subject like this, there is never one answer...

On the PRO end of the ww business, I too think we will see a decline...mainly because of import cabinets. Now, only installers are needed, not the staff to make the cabinets. The quality of these imports are good enough for most homeowners. Builders who succeed are those that offer quality homes that are as affordable as possible...and custom made anything drives up the prices. Since the ratio of avg. price homes to high-end homes is better than 20:1 (just a guess here), this represents a lot of downsizing. Of course, commercial work will remain consistent i suspect.

On the furniture end....well, one walk into a furniture store today, and its truly remarkable how nice these imports are, AND, how ridiculously low the prices are. This has really hurt the USA furniture makers. And custom furniture makers are really classified as "overpriced" today.... not in relationship to their costs, but rather in relationship to what the marketplace expects.

Sometimes I add up the cost of a project I build, and when its all said and done, it cost me 2x what a similar piece would cost in a furniture store...and this does not include my labor. High quality wood purchased in low volume is VERY expensive vs. what the big importers pay. Of course, we all don't build to save money.

On the hobby end.... I think ww will suffer the same pains as Astronomy is suffering. As the older ww's move out, they are not being replaced by younger ww's. The reasons I think are obvious, high technology is what interest the bulk of the younger generations....and as mentioned, space considerations, huge amount of time, costly tools, cost of materials, etc. etc.

Economy - All hobbies suffer in a floundering economy. If we enter a reccession, we can expect to see an even bigger loss of hobbiest. On the flip side, I think the fruitful economy of the past 20 years has really added many hobbiest....but this may not continue.

As for the trade shows, and ww stores. I agree with many of the posters above. The cost of these shows are outrageous. And with the internet being such a great marketing tool, many buyers prefer to sit at their desk, and watch product demos, glossy pdf's, testimonials, user forums, etc. I think this applies to many industries, not just ww.

It would be interesting to see industry wide sales in tools...this is always a good indicator of market direction.

[Mark Stutz]

This has been a great read...had intended to get into the shop tonight, but..OH, Well. Can't add much in the way of philosoghical musings, but I agree with the problems we all seem to have with the shows. I'll still go, especially if I can attend a seminar that interests me, but more just to have breakfast with Steve Clardy. We usually have several guys get together from a variety of forums, swap tall tales, and usually have a little show and tell. I'll also go to look at the new Lee Valley plane offerings, since I rarely buy something without holding it in my hand at least.

Mark

[Ray Klear]

SO as WW declines ,if it does, Will it take the Antique Stores with it??. Where are the Antiques of tomorrow going to come from. Or will they be Commodore 64's and Apples

[Don Bullock]

Ray,
I don't know about your area, but the Internet, mainly eBay, has caused many of our antique shops to fold. Even when I'm in one I hear people talking about eBay.

[Marcus Ward]

Add the fact wood prices are climbing and the learning curve can be quite long, I think the young ones are finding other hobbies.

You're seeing a generation of kids who can 'beat the game' in a week or two. Things that take a lot of effort like learning an instrument or woodworking are too hard for them. They can master a particular game in days. Compared to the time it takes to learn any real skill... they have unrealistic expectations from their video games so stuff that takes a while to learn is just too hard. Lame, I know, but ... this is what letting video games babysit your kids gets you - and we have an entire generation like this now. Just my retrogrouch 2 cents.

[Don Hein]

I already put in 2 cents on status of the WW hobby; now for comments about WW shows and other "expos" in general: home, RV, boats, remodeling, etc. The venues available and booked for these events are much bigger and grander than years ago. They're often in sports stadiums and arenas, convention centers, civic centers, and so on, which are bonded out 'til the end of time on the backs of tourists, convention-goers, and sports fans, creating intense pressure to generate revenue. I'm guessing this situation is a major factor in pushing admission prices to high levels. I think I recall going to the Boat Show out on Swan Island in Portland in the '50s, and admission was either free or possibly $1, kids free.

Do significantly lower "show prices" really exist, given the cost of selling at a show must be somewhat higher than through usual channels?

Earlier comments about the popularity of internet shopping are spot-on.

Wonder if car dealers will soon supplement Car Show admission revenue with a Test Drive fee....

[Alfred Clem]

"Woodworking" needs to be defined if we are to say whether it is dying out of not. There was woodworking long before there were woodworking shows, so let's leave that aspect of the craft aside.

I think of woodworking in three parts: as a hobby, as a business, and as an art. I suspect it is dying out as a business, priced toward extinction by cheaper, industrial objects of immediate utility. There will always be demand for objects of beauty, utility, and unique character.

As a hobby, woodworking has great and growing potential. This is particularly true as baby boomers move toward retirement and seek something useful and interesting to occupy their time. The price of tools reflects this demand by hobbyists -- cheap stuff for beginners, more expensive stuff for those who have graduated to higher skills levels. And we must face the fact that the American dollar (or, rather, the American peso) simply does not buy as much as it once did, whether the tools are made here or overseas.

As an art form, woodworking will always be with us. Art seeks its own level -- I suspect there are more sculptors today than there were during Michelangelo's time. Society has grown and can afford their expressions.

Just a final comment on woodworking shows. In my experience, they have a carnival air about them. The exhibitors repeat the same stuff, year after year. They grow louder and louder, offer less and less. I have about quit going to them as a result.

I went to the Woodworking Show this weekend in San Mateo Ca. It was a ghost town (as compared to previous years). About 1/2 the vendors as well as customers, I was shocked. I got there at show open this morning and there were about 20 fans waiting for the doors to open. I remember there was always a long lines. I talked with some of the vendors about it and they said it was snowballing. With the decrease in attendance (sales), the vendors are pulling out, which leads to even lower attendance. I also spoke with my friends at The Woodworker Academy booth which is a great WW school in the area. Their attendance now is way down. He also mentioned attendance levels at other schools are down, like College of the Redwoods which was waiting room only now has openings. He heard our local Woodcraft store stopped their classes due to lack of interest. Marc Adams school is even lower in attendance. What is up with this? Have you seen the same in your area?