Is Woodworking Dying out?

[Randall Frey]

I went to the Woodworking Show this weekend in San Mateo Ca. It was a ghost town (as compared to previous years). About 1/2 the vendors as well as customers, I was shocked. I got there at show open this morning and there were about 20 fans waiting for the doors to open. I remember there was always a long lines. I talked with some of the vendors about it and they said it was snowballing. With the decrease in attendance (sales), the vendors are pulling out, which leads to even lower attendance. I also spoke with my friends at The Woodworker Academy booth which is a great WW school in the area. Their attendance now is way down. He also mentioned attendance levels at other schools are down, like College of the Redwoods which was waiting room only now has openings. He heard our local Woodcraft store stopped their classes due to lack of interest. Marc Adams school is even lower in attendance. What is up with this? Have you seen the same in your area?

[Randy Klein]

I think the problem is due to the dwindling demand of hand-crafted furniture. Unfortunately, it seems like the general public's knowledge as to what constitutes fine furniture is running out. They seem to accept the particle-board IKEA stuff as high quality furniture and then don't understand why real quality furniture costs what it does and takes time to build.

I think the solution to this endemic is education. Woodcraft, et al, needs to focus some of their advertising dollars and class time to provide the general public with what to look for and why they should care when it comes to furniture purchases. If they can increase the demand, more craftsmen will be needed to fill that demand, and more tools will need to be manufactured, etc.

[Jack Hogoboom]

I'm no expert, but that doesn't sound right to me. I thought I had read somewhere that woodworking was on an upswing. Sure seems like there is increased interest in a lot of areas -- particularly turning. It's hard to believe that the backers of Steel City would commit capital to a start up venture like that if there was no prospect for market growth.

From my perspective, the problem lies more with the vendors. The shows around here used to be really good and informative. The show quality has definitely declined to the point where it is a real crap shoot as to what you're going to get. Some of the schools might be getting complacent too. I have taken classes at Peters Valley here in NJ, but their course catalog the last couple of years has been pretty uninspiring. That's why Alan Turner's new school is so attractive to me. Lots of very interesting courses taught by people who are enthusiastic about the craft.

Just my $0.02.

Jack

[Greg Cuetara]

Randall, I can't speak to WW school attendance but I can say that one reason the WW show attendance is down is that the people who run the shows don't have a clue how to bring people in or how to attract different people in different areas of the country. I have a friend who is a manufacturer in the model railroading business and he tells me all the shows are lacking in attendance and he is making much less per show than he did only a few years ago...same problem the people who run the shows don't do their research. Another problem for the shows is this forum. Great for us and I wouldn't change it but why would you want to go down to try and get sold on a large piece of iron when you can do research here and talk to those who have actually used it and know the good and bad.

Personally I like to go and walk around pick up a few things and be able to play with or touch tools I am looking at but the internet has changed that and people are buying without seeing.

As a side note (I am in engineering) what I have noticed about the new generation is that they want to walk out of school and make 50k 60k or 70k a year and demand large raises or they will walk....these 'kids' want to go into business or wall street so that they don't have to get their hands dirty. I personally think there is going to be a problem in 15-20 years when everyone is going to be in business and not that many doing the business....too many managers and not enough workers but only time will tell. WW is a very hard and competitive business ( from what I have seen and heard...i do not know personally ) but if you make a quality product which is unique people will pay almost anything for it but it has to be quality and unique. j

[Bob Michaels]

Randall, I suspect that ww's are just getting tired of the hype at those shows. I have only been to one of the Woodworking Shows, about 18 months ago in York, PA. Only reason I went was we were visiting relatives close by for a few days. Attendance was mediocre and hype was running rampant. In fact, I bought almost the entire Jointech system instead of Incra because I liked the Jointech salesman compared to the Incra salesman, who thought he was a barker at a county fair or something. That was the straw that made my decision easier, because I think the two systems are pretty similiar. I don't see the demise of interest in woodworking, in fact, my local Woodcraft store was pretty busy this weekend (I was shopping there both yesterday and today). I also attended AWFS in Vegas this past July and there certainly was no lack of attendance, by attendees or vendors. Granted, AWFS is not targeted for the hobbyist, but there were many hobbyists in attendance. Last thought, could gas prices be making people think twice about driving to a Woodworking Show. I really don't know.

[Don Bullock]

I think Randy is correct to a point, but the economy has a lot to do with what we're seeing. Just look at the posts here and you can see that many have turned to Internet vendors to save as much money as possible because they don't have the disposible income to go out and buy what they want or even, at times, what they need without scrimping somewhere.

The WWing show we just had here in Southern California was the same as yours. If' it is the same company running the two shows, the ownership of that show just changes hands and, from what I understand, hasn't done a good job recruiting vendors for the shows.

[Ron Hedrick]

The show in the St. Louis area is always in February. Usually the week after my b-day, works for me. Anyway, the show is well attended, actually it is hard to move around. The vendors are packed in like sardines. The problem is, it is mostly, as one Creeker said in another post, trinkets. Lots of jig fixtures, t-track and so on. Very little in the way of informative classes/seminars. You can see the usual demos of the Grrripper, some assorted sawblades, router jigs etc. There are one or two distributors with the heavy iron. Typically after you have been to 2 or 3 years of the shows, you have seen it all. In my opinion this is what is wrong with the shows. They are the same year after year, there is nothing new.

[Jim Becker]

The shows are struggling and have been for years. And it's not a "woodworking show" problem, either...many specialty shows have been hit with reduced traffic and the subsequent loss of vendors, etc.

Woodworking, however, is doing quite well as far as I can see. But the demographics are interesting...I think we had a thread about that awhile back. The reduction in "extra" programs in schools is making less younger folks get exposure. On the other hand, many folks like myself, aged 35-55 or so, who work in high-pressure industries and technology have discovered woodworking as a "mental health activity"...let's hope it works...hee hee

[joe Badoe]

My .2 cents worth. I am a long time woodworker and have seen the business end change in the last 3 years.

My main business was wholesale to the better stores with the cheap imports and cost to stay in business a lot of stores were sold or went to the cheap imports.

Last year I decided it was time to sell most of my tools and take it easy didn't enjoy it like I used to , seemed everthing was a battle.

Also I think younger woodworkers starting out now are becoming discouraged with price of good equipment and raw materials and wonder if it is an enjoyable hobby.

A friend of mine who was an excellent craftsman in making cabinets either had to cut quality and price or quit . He quit

The end of the story is he applied for and got a job selling and delivering Pepsi and is making much more than he was making quality cabinets.

[Brian Kent]

My first show I saw Frank Klausz making dovetails, somebody doing huge mortise and tenon work, steam bending, and a lathe made from foot-powered branches. That got me into woodworking.

In future shows, I saw some good stuff, but also got a headache from the barkers. I look forward to the next one too, but planning my day to finish quickly unless there is a class in a technique that is interesting. I don't want to get a hard sell from someone with a microphone in a high booth.

On the other hand, I think woodworking itself is probably growing quickly. Ask Lie-Niesen, Michael Wenzloff, Lee Valley, E-bay and Grizzly if woodworking is dying.

[Don Hein]

Wife and I drove through a typical new housing development today. The lots might be 5,000 square feet. The garages might be 20x20. Some developments limit the number of vehicles left outside overnight. We get more and more urbanized, more folks in condos, for example.

Housing economics today certainly don't promote large-scale woodworking. Space availability, noise covenants, nearness to neighbors--there are many disincentives. (I wonder if mini-lathe pen turning and scrollsawing are growth segments?)

If woodworking is losing share in the leisure pie, perhaps it compares to needlework. Not every household has a sewing machine anymore, either; the cost of patterns, fabric, and supplies is such that home-crafted clothes would cost many times the prices of off-the-rack items produced with cheap labor. Hand-crafted goods are luxury goods, even when a person makes them for him/herself.

Finally, I just wonder if the long run of "Home Improvement" on TV doesn't even today (re-runs) dampen interest. Yup, be like Tim, your typical home-shop buffoon.

[Randall Frey]

Lots of good feedback! Sounds like most have seen a change although some have not. I have gone to the shows for 10 or more years and yes, I have left at times and said "same old thing" but, it was always packed with people, suddenly now it's different. The pitch men at the show, that could be a separate thread in itself, but I expect it. As some here mentioned gas prices, The guy at the WW school booth said they noticed when gas prices hit $3, attendance dropped off. Cheap furniture, another guy told the story that he was going to build an oak dining table but after pricing out the material, figuring the time to build it, he had seen finished oak tables that he could live with for the same or less and he could just go fishing instead. I hope what ever is happening is just a slump and will pick up.

[Gary Keedwell]

I personally think it is the show's fault that attendance might be down. Of course the show I go to in Massachusetts is always crowded. Maybe it is a regional thing? I find it hard to believe that interest woodworking is waning, not with over 75 million boomers aging and looking for retirement hobbies.
Alot of whining about cheap woodworking imports, but it could very well be the savior of the hobby. I can buy my cabinet saw new today for the same price that I paid for it 12 years ago. Imagine what it would cost if we had to pay the dollar adjusted cost of today? Does you new car cost the same today as 12 years ago?
Someone mentioned Steel City....I hope that they are the faces of the future. Of course, if we have some kind of worldwide depression .......maybe we'll all have more time for woodworking?
Gary

[Chuck Lenz]

I can tell you from my experience as a woodworker for over 20 years that I've lost alot of passion for it. Just a few years ago I finally got fed up with doing stuff for family and friends. It was geting to the point that they were expecting stuff at their price, demanding it. One day I refused and was called about every name in the book from my brother inlaw, after refinishing about 5 peices of furniture, building a shed, frameing out his basement, two work bences for the garage, a Cupalo, and a few other odds and ends, over the course of a few years . I guess I'm to the point that I don't know how much more equipment I want to buy when I can't make $10 an hour useing it. I still like creating things and I still like tools, hard saying where I'll end up. About a year ago I started takeing a interest in building a better dust chute for my Delta Contractors saw out of sheet metal and ended up takeing care of some of the open back of the saw cabinet issues. It was a fun project, I bought a sheet metal brake planning to do more sheet metal work in the future.

[Chuck Lenz]

I can buy my cabinet saw new today for the same price that I paid for it 12 years ago. Imagine what it would cost if we had to pay the dollar adjusted cost of today? Does you new car cost the same today as 12 years ago?

Gary

In alot of cases Gary we aren't geting the same tool as you got 12 years ago. It's not American anymore. I'd rather have a American made 12 year old Unisaw with low miles and well takein care of than a 2007 model Unisaw.