What to look for in a table saw?

[Thomas Knighton]

OK, a little while ago, I asked for opinions on a $99 Delta table saw. Obviously, I know squat about what I'm looking for. I did gather from that thread that I don't want a direct drive, and I found out that it's mostly because of vibration (am I right on this?). Since I'm all new, I wonder just what I need to be looking for exactly. Obviously, I know to avoid direct drive, but what else? How can I tell if something is direct drive if they don't say anything on the website? Any brands to just run away screaming from, no matter how good a deal? Any brands I should jump on regardless of how good a deal?

Any and all help is greatly appreciated. I hate sounding like a no-nothing noob, but I'll deal with it for the time beingsince I'm a no-nothing noob

Thanks!

Tom

edited to add that I'm mostly looking for criteria, but suggestions are welcome. I'd prefer to not spend over $300, but recognize that I may have to suck it up and spend more than that anyways. Craigslist isn't an option (nothing for my neck of the woods) and the local paper hasn't had anything in it for a while. Besides, I'd rather buy new and have the insurance of a warranty

[Scott Kilroy]

Remember a lot of people will have table saws that they haven't used and haven't thought about for years. you might be better off posting a "wanted" ad on craigslist or putting up some flyer's at local lumberyard. I got my table saw for free when a friend was going to give me a radial arm saw he had in storage. As we were digging out the radial saw I casually offered to buy "that table saw in the corner" until I mentioned he thought he gave it away years ago.

[Lee Schierer]

As others have said avoid direct drive saws. Direct drive saws will have the blade mounted on the motor drive shaft and the motor bearings are also supporting the blade. Sears made one version of a direct drive saw with a flexible shaft drive. I would avoid those as well. You want a saw that has a separate arbor holding the blade that is driven by one or more belts from a motor. Stay with 10" blade capable saws as the others are severly limited in capacity. Stay with 1-1/2 Hp or greater. Cast iron is the preferred material for the table tops. Some saws have aluminum tops and in my experience have yet to see one that is truly flat. You want a rip fence and cross cut guide. The fence should be substantial so it doesn't deflect when you press against it and it should lock down perpendicular to the gence guide bar each and every time. Stay with a name brand like Delta, Jet, General, Grizzly as they will have better service support. Some older Craftsman saws are okay, I own one. Some of the newer Craftsman saws leave a lot to be desired. If you are serious about woodworking buy the best you can afford as it will be the main tool used in your shop unless you get into wood turning, which is a whole different world.

[Derek Tuchscherer]

Check this out

http://valdosta.craigslist.org/tls/496119188.html

Derek

[Brian K McDermaid]

Look for a used Ryobi BT3100 .. Its a great saw for the price. Heck.. it even has a riving knife .

The going price in my area is about $150 (thats what i sold mine for). You'll be hard pressed to find a better saw in that price range (IMHO).

~brian

[Thomas Knighton]

I've been looking for a BT3100, but no luck at all. I don't want to do without until that ONE saw comes along, you know?

As for the Valdosta deal, I can't cough up that money at the moment, and I suspect that deal will be gone before I can. However, if it's still there, when I get close to that in savings, I'm definitely pulling the trigger on it.

Thanks everyone so far. I suspect there's even more I need to know to make an intelligent decision, so further information is definitely welcome and wanted!

Tom

[Bas Pluim]

The $300 price you listed is actually pretty close. The simplest advice (barring any super deals or second hand options) is to not by anything cheaper than $250. At this end of the range, it's hard to go lower. A used Ridgid or Ryobi BT3 would be your best bet. Delta, Jet, Grizzly and Craftsman have lots of decent "contractor" style saws in the lower price range.

There are many criteria to consider:
- Stability/ vibration
- Dust collection
- Standard T-track (so you can buy standard accessories)
- Power
- Accuracy
- 220V/ 110V
- ...

My advice:
(1) Definitely get a belt-driven saw. It's not just vibration, you get a much cleaner cut from a belt-drive saw
(2) The next item to look for is a solid fence. Lock it down and press against it. It shouldn't flex. You can live with inaccuracies, just mentally add/ subtract that 1/16" of an inch......
(3) If you do most of your woodworking outside, or can open the garage door, you may not care about dust collection. Inside in the basement, it might be more important. A good shopvac helps.
(4) A 1.5HP saw should provide ample power. Most of the lumber you'll be sawing will be 3/4 - 1" thick, the few times you use thicker material just go slow. Or: If you have to ask, you don't need more.
(5) Think about putting the saw on a mobile base. It's much easier to do this beforehand rather than afterwards. But, those cost money too.
(6) Buy a good saw blade! I left this for last, but it is the most important one. A $99 saw with a sharp quality blade does better than a $500 saw with a dull, cheap blade. I suggest a good combination blade, plus a blade dedicated for ripping. Spend the money on the combo blade, and economize on the ripping blade. Most people like the Forrest Woodworker II, but also consider Freud, DeWalt etc. Don't buy anything cheaper than $40, and you should be fine for the combo.

Don't worry too much about buying the "perfect" saw. Get something that meets your budget and allows you to get going. You'll learn what's important that way. Like having a fence you don't need to lock down on the other side with a clamp :-) You can then troll Craigslist at your leisure.

Home Depot has a belt-driven Jet right now for $249, with free shipping. I'd jump on that. It's not the saw for life, but worst case, you sell it on CL in a year or so and recoup most of your investment. And don't forget to buy a good blade.

[Randal Stevenson]

I am going to throw out a couple of options. What sort of projects are you doing/wanting to do? Fixed saw space, or does it need to me portable/mobile? Any experience with a saw (including school)?

You say that you don't have a decent CL or much in the local classifieds/garage sales; that pretty much eliminates the $150 starter contractor saw that so many people start out with.
The BT3100 was mentioned, as is a wonderful saw, with a website that is devoted to tips and tricks about it (as well as general woodworking) bt3central for searching purposes. Right now (through the end of the day) a Craftsman badged version of the saw is on sale, with a Craftsman club discount (can sign up when purchasing) $315 before tax. If you do it online with a Sears card (and get local pickup), they are offering 12 months interest free (pay the 300 and pay the 15 and tax over the next 10 months and have no interest). Get a shark guard for this saw.

Have you looked at the guided circular saw systems? Festool is out strictly on budget, check out the EZ smart (see forums below) and look for it on Ebay (Cheaper then his store right now, no sales I am aware of). This might suit your needs (filling mine more, due to the portability and how I use mine).

Hope this helps!

[Thomas Knighton]

This is creepy. I was JUST looking at that Jet. I was worried that there might be something wrong with it. Definitely one for me to look at then

Obviously, I'm still keeping my options open.

Thanks,

Tom

[Thomas Knighton]

I am going to throw out a couple of options. What sort of projects are you doing/wanting to do? Fixed saw space, or does it need to me portable/mobile? Any experience with a saw (including school)?

Not with a table saw unfortunately. My school didn't have a shop class (way to small apparently). I don't need portability/mobility. I've got a pretty decent sized shop space that I'm currently cleaning out (was used for storage) so space isn't that big of an issue. I've been looking at the portable saws mostly due to cost...they seem to be cheaper for new saws.

You say that you don't have a decent CL or much in the local classifieds/garage sales; that pretty much eliminates the $150 starter contractor saw that so many people start out with.
The BT3100 was mentioned, as is a wonderful saw, with a website that is devoted to tips and tricks about it (as well as general woodworking) bt3central for searching purposes. Right now (through the end of the day) a Craftsman badged version of the saw is on sale, with a Craftsman club discount (can sign up when purchasing) $315 before tax. If you do it online with a Sears card (and get local pickup), they are offering 12 months interest free (pay the 300 and pay the 15 and tax over the next 10 months and have no interest). Get a shark guard for this saw.

Unfortunately, I can't pull the trigger on this now. It's a real shame too, because that would probably work really well for me. Way to close to Christmas for that

Have you looked at the guided circular saw systems? Festool is out strictly on budget, check out the EZ smart (see forums below) and look for it on Ebay (Cheaper then his store right now, no sales I am aware of). This might suit your needs (filling mine more, due to the portability and how I use mine).

Hope this helps!

I have looked at the EZ Smart Guide, but I have some reservations about the system. There's just a lot more info about table saws out there for me to reference, you know?

It's a big help though, thanks for everything!

Tom

[Matthew Voss]

Tom-

Here is my short comment on the saw I think Bas is referring to:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...543#post709543

I bought this to use as a jobsite saw, but wouldn't hesitate to recommend it for a startup/hobbyist saw. I've had it over a year and it has performed flawlessly.

Just to clarify, while this saw is belt driven, it has a universal motor like ALL benchtop saws - not to be confused with a belt driven induction motor on a contractor saw. Still, a definite improvement in the portable saw class.

[Randal Stevenson]

Not with a table saw unfortunately. My school didn't have a shop class (way to small apparently). I don't need portability/mobility. I've got a pretty decent sized shop space that I'm currently cleaning out (was used for storage) so space isn't that big of an issue. I've been looking at the portable saws mostly due to cost...they seem to be cheaper for new saws.



Unfortunately, I can't pull the trigger on this now. It's a real shame too, because that would probably work really well for me. Way to close to Christmas for that



I have looked at the EZ Smart Guide, but I have some reservations about the system. There's just a lot more info about table saws out there for me to reference, you know?

It's a big help though, thanks for everything!

Tom

As for the close to Christmas part, from what I have OBSERVED, this saw seems to hit the Craftsman club flier about ever 3 months, so do you get a tax REFUND, or pay? (still an option, just delayed gratification, or use the Sears card and pay next x (just definately before it is due)).
As for the EZ, I have used it more thanks TO THIS FORUM. I know exactly what you mean about finding out more info on the table saw, since it is more prevailant. I just wish I had someone else I could bounce idea's off of, locally (one reason why people I have shown the system to, haven't jumped, learning curve, with no local support).
My table saw use in school was limited, and this wasn't a small school district. We had the opposite issue, you kinda had to hurry up and do it, so the next person could use it. Didn't feel real safe, since very few people had time to get comfortable with it (very few selected for the advanced class, so they had access before and after school hours).
Since $ is the issue, more then time right now, keep driving by garage sales. It is a great way to start.

[scott spencer]

Alot of what to look for is what you like. I tend to prefer a full size cast iron saw with belt drive induction motor. I also prefer a really good fence and solid cast iron wings if I can get them. I'd prefer cabinet mounted trunnions, an enclosed motor, and a one-piece carriage too, which basically means I'd prefer a $1k+ cabinet saw! Once you get to that $400-$500 mark, many of the full size contractor saws and hybrids are similar enough that you should be be able to make work well for you. All will spin the arbor with little runout and have sufficient power. From there, setup and blade selection determine the final performance. The Jet from Rockler is the best deal going I know of right now in this class, but a good used deal is could top this one.

The BT that was mentioned is a smaller alternative with a loyal following. It has a belt drive universal motor, with some other unique features. It's no longer made as a Ryobi, but the Craftsman 21829 (?) is a Ryobi made clone with a roll away stand, router table, and other updates. It's on sale for $350, $315 for C-Man Club members. It'll do most of a what a larger saw will do in terms of accurate cuts for furniture grade work, but will never have quite the same feel due to it's weight and size.

Here's a link to Wikipedia's explanation of TS differences.

[Thomas Knighton]

Tom-

Here is my short comment on the saw I think Bas is referring to:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...543#post709543

I bought this to use as a jobsite saw, but wouldn't hesitate to recommend it for a startup/hobbyist saw. I've had it over a year and it has performed flawlessly.

Just to clarify, while this saw is belt driven, it has a universal motor like ALL benchtop saws - not to be confused with a belt driven induction motor on a contractor saw. Still, a definite improvement in the portable saw class.

Matthew,

That looks like the saw I was checking out earlier. The $250 price tag definitely sounds pretty nice to me, and the fact that it's the regular price at Home Depot, meaning I don't have to jump right away

I have a few questions about it though, if you don't mind. How is the vibration and accuracy? Is the fence decent? Anything I'll need to watch out for?

Thanks in advance.

Tom

[Rob Will]

Thomas, we debate this topic all the time. Here's my two cents worth.

Save your money until you can buy a used cabinet saw. I would buy a Powermatic 66, a Delta Unisaw, a Jet, or a Grizzly. The older Powermatics and Deltas are USA made. I would also buy one with a 50" Biesemeyer fence (or add it yourself).

I know this will be more money than you want to spend right now but 5 years from now you will look back and know that a cabinet saw was the right thing to do.

Don't worry about the warranty. A good cabinet saw will outlast 10 of the lesser saws.

Good luck,

Rob