under $2k J/P Showdown: Grizzly vs Jet

[Kevin Groenke]

FWIW in checking out the pros and cons of helical heads, I read several times that the Griz head reportedly provides a smoother surface than the shelix. Surprised me; the sheliz just looks like a slightly better design, but am waiting until stronger confirmation is available. Would be cheaper too...well....right now, anyway.

I would also really like to hear/see first person evidence/experience of the Byrd vs "generic"/Grizzly spiral head. We took delivery of a Grizzly 0609 12" jointer on Monday (looks/works great though there is a .010 bow in the fence) and I'm trying to decide whether to put in the Byrd head or the "plain" Grizzly. We've got a PM 20" planer with the Byrd and I'm slightly dismayed by the extent of the scalloping that the radiused carbide inserts create. I think the DW735 that the PM replaced actually left a flatter/smoother surface albeit in a much slower/noisier fashion.

Scalloping on the face of a board isn't the end of the world, but it seems to us that scalloping on an edge could create problems during glue-up (ie: corners aren't square so panel doesn't glue-up flat) The Grizzly spiral head uses straight inserts parallel to the boards face, so I can imagine some ridges or hollows where the inserts intersect, but it doesn't seem scalloping would be a problem.

Can Grizzly spiral head users please give a detailed description of the surface created and how it might differ from straight knifes and/or the Byrd head.

Shiraz, you sell both the Byrd head and your own spin-off design. You claim that the straight inserts of the Grizzly head handle figured and difficult grain as well as the "true helix" of the Byrd... is the resulting surface flatter than that of the Byrd??

Thanks!

kg

[Eddie Darby]

That's not the Byrd Shelix head for $2400. It's the Grizzly spiral head. Maybe I've just succumbed to marketing hype, but I'd rather have a real Shelix head. It has shearing action while the Grizzly does not. Does this make a difference in practice? I don't know, but my normal reaction is to go with the best available.

Matt

Odd thing is that I hear about ridges on some Shelix heads, but not on the Grizzly heads.

[JayStPeter]

I sort of scanned this thread and noted comments about the Byrd spiral head....

I have a mmfs30 with tersa knives. I like that machine, but I still get a better finish with my Delta 22-580 lunch box planer.

My question is....

What costs more, retrofitting your j/pwith some Byrd-shelix-spiral-head-super shearer thingamajig or just hanging on to that little lunch box?

Does that spiral head produce a better cut than the lunch box?

joe

I think I have the same setup as John Stevens above (same planer and a byrd on my jointer). The answer is it depends. Like John mentioned the crazy grain finishes much better on the jointer. On straight grain, it's a toss up.

The smooth surface on crazy grain is the main advantage of the carbide insert heads (byrd or not). But, another unsung advantage is that I can run the boards through in either direction with no discernable difference. It makes things easier on the jointer. I can pick an edge to joint after I joint a face and just do it. I can also feed the board which ever direction is more convenient when face jointing (ie. the smoothest edge near the fence). It seems minor, but it's a bigger advantage than you would think. Being able to flip flop the board can sometimes save you from turning a warped board into a thin or ramped board.

[Eddie Darby]

I see that the price is even cheaper now. Who can say what it will be in a year or two.

http://www.tools-plus.com/jet-708475.html

$1,699.00

I wonder if Jet will be offering a spiral head for this machine in the future???

[David Weaver]

Wow...that's a great deal. I hope it's even cheaper by the end of the year when I'm looking to buy a machine.

[Kevin Groenke]

Well, It seems that Grizzly doesn't know the difference between the Byrd and their own design (for the 0609) as yet since they they don't actually have any of the 12" spirals.

The Grizzly spiral will be $650 + $120 for the inserts , the Byrd is on sale for $665 and comes w/10 spare cutters.

That decision just got a little easier.


Dear Kevin,

Thank you for your email dated December 21, 2007.

Regarding your inquiry of spiral cutterheads, the P0609X023 Spiral Cutterhead 12” is currently priced at $650.00 plus shipping and handling. This unit would just be the cutterhead and all inserts and accessories would need to be purchased separately. We have not yet received stock of these cutterheads to determine your other inquiries of cutterhead design and functionality.



Technical Support
Grizzly Industrial Inc.

[Jim Becker]

Noticeable scalloping is generally a sign of either a knife being out of alignment, dull kinves or excessive feed speed. That last pass on edges should be rreeaallyyy ssslllooooowwwww for best results. (increased the number of cuts per inch) Scalloping on thicknessing or face jointing is a similar situation, although you have less or no control on feed speed when thicknessing.

The lunch-box planers will always provide a "finer" surface simply because the number of cuts per inch is generally higher than with a stationary machine, especially with the 3-knife versions. They simply spin the cutter head much faster. (at the expense of higher noise levels and shorter life if you are a heavy user) But there are still scallops there if you examine the surface closely. 'Nature of a rotating cutter head. None of these machines should be considered anything close to providing a finished surface. You still need to scrape, hand-plane and/or sand the surfaces to eliminate the cutting surfaces left by the rotating knives.

I am, however, very happy with the results from the Tersa head on my J/P, especially when I can skew the workpiece for a shearing cut...which I do most of the time.

[Kevin Groenke]

Jim,

As a result of the slightly radiused cutting edges, the Byrd cutterheads leave a very subtle scalloping which runs parallel to the grain/feed
direction. Theoretically this could result in jointed edges that aren't square which could be a problem when gluing up panels. The Grizzly spiral/index cutterhead uses straight edged inserts which it seems would do away with the scallops, my question is what am I losing with the Grizzly rather than the Byrd? The obvious answer is the shearing cut, but I wonder if there's more.

I've noticed less scalloping perpendicular to the grain/feed direction with the Byrd, since the knives are oriented in a spiral some are always in contact w/the stock. The exponential reduction in noise level is the primary reason we upgraded to the spiral, it meets and exceeds expectations in that regard.

Certainly no rotational cutting solution is going to be flat under magnification, I'm just trying to get the flattest surfaces possible with the least work.

I would never expect that anything other than jointing (albeit carefully and at an appropriate speed) would be required prior to gluing up panels. Isn't this after all one of the primary functions of a jointer?

I guess I'll just run some previously jointed stock on edge through the planer with the Byrd to assess whether the scallops will be problematic.

kg

[John Stevens]

I guess I'll just run some previously jointed stock on edge through the planer with the Byrd to assess whether the scallops will be problematic.

I'd be interested in what you find, Kevin. I haven't had a problem with jointing edges for stock to be glued into panels, but I'd like to hear from others.

Regards,

John