Breadboard Ends D.R. table question

[Craig D Peltier]

Hi, My dad built and White Oak Rectangular dining room table 30 years ago, top is about 1.5 thick and 30x70. He attached breadboard ends to it with a long tenon on the end and the mortise on the tabletop. Over time the top has shrunk alot which cause the ends to stick out further.He told me he has cut them down three times or so already. One is currently stuck out about 3/16.

Do you think it was caused by the wood being too wet when used?
Is this just common with a table to do this with breadboard ends and unpreventable?
Is there a prevention method?

Thanks for any suggestions in adavance.

[Jamie Buxton]

Breadboard ends, in general, are not exactly flush with the sides of the table. The length of the breadboard end does not vary with humidity, while the width of the table does. There is no way to prevent it.

[George Bregar]

Like Jamie said, 30" can move a lot. Are you sure however about the joinery? Typically with BB ends the top has the tenon, and the end has the mortise. and then they are pinned.

[Craig D Peltier]

Like Jamie said, 30" can move a lot. Are you sure however about the joinery? Typically with BB ends the top has the tenon, and the end has the mortise. and then they are pinned.

It could be that way, i might be backwards. I dont think he pinned it with dowels either.

Thanks

[Greg Cole]

I've opted to not use breadboards ends on a couple of projects for the sticking out too far or not far enough scenario depending on the season-humidity..... oh wait a minute, I haven't gotten to one of those projects "quite yet".
I'd be inclined to think the joinery is as George mentioned too....

Greg

[George Bregar]

See, I'm the other way. For tables I think they are not only a great look, hiding the end grain, and interesting joinery. The are also very functional in keeping the table flat where it needs it most, and the end where it is most noticeable and moisture is absorbed greatest.

One thing in reading the OP is that it sounds like only one side is effected. If Craig is correct it sounds like gramps glued the BB (if no pinning what else?) and the glue joint failed allowing contraction/expansion only from one side. A bread board end should be glued and tightly pinned in the middle, with slotted pins at the ends, so that expansion/contraction is halved at each end.

[Jesse Cloud]

Not much you can do to prevent it. Greene and Greene furniture uses decorative rounded edges on the breadboards, that always stick out, but at least they look like they are supposed to do that.

3/16 sounds like a lot. My 30 inch walnut table sticks out about 1/8 at the peak damp season.

[Craig D Peltier]

See, I'm the other way. For tables I think they are not only a great look, hiding the end grain, and interesting joinery. The are also very functional in keeping the table flat where it needs it most, and the end where it is most noticeable and moisture is absorbed greatest.

One thing in reading the OP is that it sounds like only one side is effected. If Craig is correct it sounds like gramps glued the BB (if no pinning what else?) and the glue joint failed allowing contraction/expansion only from one side. A bread board end should be glued and tightly pinned in the middle, with slotted pins at the ends, so that expansion/contraction is halved at each end.

Hes actually cut both ends of both sides. Im certain its not pinned/ doweled. I believe glue and some failed brads maybe.
Its in Se Mass where it gets very dry in winter and very humid in summer.Then they have a wood furncae that keeps the house 85-90 in winter and AC in summer that keeps it cool. So theres alot of weather.

[George Bregar]

Hes actually cut both ends of both sides. Im certain its not pinned/ doweled. I believe glue and some failed brads maybe.
Its in Se Mass where it gets very dry in winter and very humid in summer.Then they have a wood furncae that keeps the house 85-90 in winter and AC in summer that keeps it cool. So theres alot of weather.

But if I'm reading you right, the overhang is only on one side. This suggests failure of the joint at one end, and my guess is that the BB was glued along its length.

[Phil Clark]

Because of wood movement in the table top, it is impossible to have a bread board end stay even with the t/t sides. Typically this fact is made into a design feature as in Greene & Greene furniture. In that design a 3/16 overhang would be minimum when the project is at its dryest.

[George Bregar]

Because of wood movement in the table top, it is impossible to have a bread board end stay even with the t/t sides. Typically this fact is made into a design feature as in Greene & Greene furniture. In that design a 3/16 overhang would be minimum when the project is at its dryest.

My point hat it would be even on both sides if properly design...in this case it should be 3/32 on each side.