First Post and Common Table Saw question

[Brian Fulkerson]

Hello everyone, This is my first post to the forum after months of reading everyone else's threads. I appreciate all the valuable information I have gathered from many of you.

Last year I purchased a Delta Hybrid saw as a good compromise between the inexpensive table saws and the large cabinet saws. At the time, I figured that I would be doing generic projects around the house like shelving, back yard decking, and generic cabinetry. In fact, my interests in woodworking have grown exponentially. My first real project was a jewelery box for my wife for this last Christmas. Made from Bubinga and Maple. My second project was the infamous cutting board (Maple and Purpleheart) that most of us has probably seen from The Wood Whisperer. The photos that I have exceed the memory requirement for the site. I will try to get other pictures that work in later threads.


Here is my dilemma:

With the exception to my table saw, I feel that I am growing my shop very well. Unfortunately, as I have been cutting various hardwoods as large as 8/4, the table saw bogs down constantly. Because I have a desire to continue using exotic hardwoods, i feel the need to upgrade my saw. In fact, i want to purchase my last saw. I made a big enough mistake on the Hybrid. There are SO many reviews, articles and brochures to read that they have made me more confused than anything. I am considering these big contenders; Delta, Jet, Powermatic, and General. I have not decided on new or used yet, however I am leaning towards new knowing that it will be the last saw that I buy.

More specifically, here are the models:

Delta Unisaw
Jet Deluxe Xacta
Powermatic - PM2000 or Model 66
General 650

(The Saw Stop is just too darn expensive) My budget is right around a max of $2,000

I would appreciate imput from any of you who directly use these machines. Also, any other ideas would be appreciated. No better advice than from the horses mouth, right?

Happy woodworking!!

Brian

[Les Heinen]

Brian,

I purchased a PM 2000 about a year ago. Had a problem with the arbor lock snapping off which I am working to get fixed and struggled with the riving knife until I finally realized that one shouldn't use a blade less than 1/8". Unfortunately, my collection of saw blades were from the BORG and were all thinner..not quite a TK blade. I now have to reinvest in a new TS blade collection.


Everything else about the PM2000 is up to and in some cases exceeds my expectations. The dust collection is phenominal compared to what I had; the built in caster system works like a champ; assembly was a snap; everything which was to be perpendicular was- everything which was supposed to be parallel was (excepting the fence top as mentioned)- no fine tuning required; the power switch is located exactly where I need it to power off without fumbling around; the extension table with the router lift is a God send; Tops are flat and true; Passes the nickel test with flying colors; I have even grown to like the color!!

I got mine with the router extension table which frees up some of my limited shop space and with a hardboard cover, it also serves as a layout table.

Any of the TS's you listed are good and will probably serve you well.

Best Regards,

Les Heinen

[George Bregar]

Good luck ending the confusion, as you will have to sift through these same varied answers and opinions. All are good saws as Les said. Me, I would buy used, especially for PM and Delta. You can still get the last saw you will ever have. More money for other tools or expensive exotic hardwoods.

[Paul Gatti]

First of all WELCOME to Sawmill Creek!

I'm assuming that you have a 1.75 HP motor in your current hybrid saw correct? You might want to try a few things first before dropping $2K on a new saw. I have a 1956 Unisaw with a 1.5 HP motor that works well on thicker hardwoods. The two things I did that really helped were changing the motor to run on on 220 instead of 120 and switching to a high quality thin kerf blade (Forrest Woodworker II). Also, when cutting thicker hardwoods, I make sure to slow down that rate which I feed wood into the saw.

I don't know how my old Unisaw motor compares to the motor on your hybrid quality-wise, so these might not help, but it could be worth a try.

If you do decide to buy a new saw, I would look at either a delta Unisaw with a 3 to 5 HP motor or the new Grizzly G0651. The Grizzly is an interesting saw. It comes with a 3HP motor, riving knife, 52" Biesemeyer style fence, and it includes the extension and outfeed tables, all for $1839 ($1695 Saw + $144 Shipping). All the Powermatic cabinet saws I've seen are over $2K new.

As George mentioned, the third option is to look for a high quality used PM or Delta saw.

[George Bregar]

The two things I did that really helped were changing the motor to run on on 220 instead of 120 and switching to a high quality thin kerf blade (Forrest Woodworker II). Also, when cutting thicker hardwoods, I make sure to slow down that rate which I feed wood into the saw.

THin kerf and slower feed rate, yes. Switching to 240 will have no effect.

[Paul Gatti]

Thin kerf and slower feed rate, yes. Switching to 240 will have no effect.

Maybe it's just my imagination, but my saw seems to run stronger since I switched to 240.

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey Brian,
I have used the unisaw and the pm66 for several years. Both will slice any 8/4 wood you have with a 3HP motor.

Definitely look for used. Not only will you have $$, but you will probably get a better saw. There have been several threads on the board about what to look for when buying a used saw.

If you don't already have a rip blade, it would be worth trying that before you invest in a new saw.

[Sean Kinn]

Maybe it's just my imagination, but my saw seems to run stronger since I switched to 240.

Here's my $0.02 based on my situation. You never realize how circuits may be run in your house until you start messing with high current drawing machines and popping breakers. As it turns out, in my townhouse the 1 (yes 1) outlet I have in the garage also seems to be on the same circuit as the lighting in the garage and adjacent hallway. Does this meet code...I don't know. But based on other stuff I've found that the builder did, it doesn't surprise me.

So, if I want max performance out of my router or crappy bt3100 I have to run a 12ga cord out into the garage from another circuit. I think this may be the case for a lot of folks (too much draw on a 15a circuit), and when they have a new 240v line put in, or tap into the dryer outlet they aren't competing with other loads on the circuit.

[Rod Sheridan]

Hi Brian, I have owned a General 650 for 6 years and am very pleased with the saw.

It is smooth, powerful, accurate and repeatable.

The saw is made in Canada which was a selling point for me.

The saw came with a General T fence (Biessemeyer) and has a 50 inch rip capacity. General produced one for me with a 32 inch rip capacity as I have a small shop.

I added an Excalibur overarm guard and Merlin splitter to mine.

The machining, fit and finish are in my opinion superior to the Unisaw.

Regards, Rod.

[glenn bradley]

I'm glad to see someone else recommend something other than dropping a couple grand on a new saw. I have a 1 3/4HP hybrid and routinely cut 6/4 and 8/4 lumber without trouble. I run Freud TK blades and use the appropriate blade for the task; 24T rip, 80T x-cut, etc.

I run the saw at 110v on a dedicated 20a circuit. This was a definite improvement from running it on a shared circuit with the lights (duh). Other things that may contribute to the bogging could be feed rate, no wax on the table / fence or setup issues. I do notice the Delta rated lower on power compared to the Steel City and the Sears hybrids although the HP ratings are the same and the saws are close in design. Not sure why that would be but, I would definitely try some tuning before I just threw money at the issue. It would really hurt to drop the cash and still have the same basic problems.

[Brian Fulkerson]

Is the riving knife that is included with the Jet and powermatic worth it, or can i get the same performance from models like the PM 66, and unisaw that has an aftermarket splitter? The downside that I have seen is that the slitter is fixed on these models and cannot be used for as may cut aplications.

[Danny Thompson]

I agree with several others that a think kerf blade makes a big difference. If you think about it, a thinner kerf blade is easier to get up to speed (and get back up to speed under a load) and presents less friction during the cut (think about a fillet knife v. a butcher knife).

[George Bregar]

I agree with several others that a think kerf blade makes a big difference. If you think about it, a thinner kerf blade is easier to get up to speed (and get back up to speed under a load) and presents less friction during the cut (think about a fillet knife v. a butcher knife).

It does but not for the reasons you describe. First, the ease of getting the blade up to speed is moot...the blade should be up to speed before the cut is made. Second, a think kerf blade has less mass, so it actually can be slowed easier under load. It's the fact that it is removing less material that allows it to keep its speed. It's doing less work.

[Brian Fulkerson]

As a quick note, I am very meticulous about table saw maintenance. The table is frequently lubricated with paste wax, and I keep my blades aligned, clean, and sharp. Including the fence. Durring my cutting board project, I had many problems avoiding burn marks on my 8/4 Maple and purpleheart. I had to stop the saw on various occations because the saw blade slowed down WAY too much. On one occation, it even stopped. Very scarry!!

Evidence is pointing to a simply underpowered saw. Though

[Lawrence Smith]

I purchased a used PM66 several years ago for $825. I believe it will be the last saw that I will ever have to purchase. Remember, new or used the quality always remains. I constantly scan the local CL for used machinery. There are some great bargains out there. Use the savings from not having to buy a new saw on other "goodies". Buying top of the line used equipment makes sense to me.

My $.02