Spiral cutterhead question(s)

[Chris Padilla]

Jim,

Perhaps I don't understand the relationship between SCM and MiniMax? Looking at that website for SCM, I didn't see "MiniMax" at all. What big picture am I missing out on as usual?

[Jim Becker]

Perhaps I don't understand the relationship between SCM and MiniMax? Looking at that website for SCM, I didn't see "MiniMax" at all. What big picture am I missing out on as usual?

About MiniMax

[Chris Padilla]

http://www.scmgroup-usa.com/machines...10nseries.html
http://www.scmgroup-usa.com/machines...20eseries.html

These are an SCM branded jointer and planer. This is all I was referring to when I said I was in way over my head!

[Bob Babich]

Do any of you have any comments about Powermatics 15" planer with the byrd cutterhead (PM15 HH). It is new and just wondering if it is a good tool for a home shop with a lot of wood to plane.

[jim gossage]

.

As for the marks on the wood that the fella had with the Byrd shelix cutterhead, when I was doing some surfing, I came across some comments from folks that experienced the same thing with carbide blades. HSS provided a clean cut, and the carbide always seemed to leave marks. So maybe you want a shelix cutterhead with HSS knives that you can hone easily?

I'm also confused about this grinding attachment or whatever I have read about these spiral/shelix cutterheads. How does it work?

If I buy an aftermarket Byrd shelix cutterhead for a Delta 15" planer, or for my DJ-20 jointer, how to I sharpen them, or even align the dozens of blades on these things? Suppose I run a nail through them and need to replace 4 of those blades - how do I set those properly to be within a thou of each other (or whatever the correct tolerance should be)?

Totally confused....

Allan

i recently bought an 8" yorkcraft jointer with byrd shelix cutterhead (about $400 extra). it has 6 rows of spirally oriented carbide inserts. the edge of each insert is "radiused" or slightly curved, which is supposed to improve the finish and lessen ridges that you see with straight inserts. when one gets dull or nicked, you simply remove one screw, turn the insert 90 degrees, and replace the screw - no fiddling around, no dials gauges, no gizzmos. the inserts cannot be adjusted in any other fashion, so i do not believe that sharpening them would be easy unless you have a computer aided sharpener that could tolerance down to about 0.002". if you can afford a spiral cutterhead, you can afford to replace the inserts, say in 5 or 10 years after you've worn all 4 edges down!

now, how well does it work. awesome! i would have paid double for it (i hope the byrd guy doesn't lurk here)! no tearout on figured maple, walnut, or cherry so far. in fact, i really don't pay attention to grain direction anymore. i have not seen tearout once in the 2 months i have owned it. very quiet and smooth. a little more feed pressure because knife edges are always engaged in the wood. i can't imagine that kickback would ever be a problem, so it might actually be a safety feature. a few articles have mentioned that spiral cutterheads leave small ridges, but of course, so do steel knives when nicked. so far, i really haven't noticed any ridges that won't disappear with a few passes of sandpaper or that interfer with edge gluing. all in all, i'm quite happy with it. my only complaint is that i didn't buy a yorkcraft planer with spiral head, which by the way can be had for around $1400 and looks like a tank (http://www.wilkemachinery.com/defaul...skudatarq=2534)

[Martin Shupe]

Do any of you have any comments about Powermatics 15" planer with the byrd cutterhead (PM15 HH). It is new and just wondering if it is a good tool for a home shop with a lot of wood to plane.

Wow, talk about an old thread!

Since this thread started, I have installed, with John's assistance over the phone, the Shelix cutterhead on my DJ-20. I really like it.

I have not seen the new Powermatic 15" with the Byrd option, can you tell me how much it costs? Do they make a 20" version?

My jointer will sometimes leave small ridges, but that is better than tearout, and I can handplane the joints anyway.

My current planer leaves small ripples, so I have to sand or hand plane them out. If I had a planer with a byrd shelix head, I would have no tearout, and I could sand or plane out the ridges.

Someday I'll buy a new planer, with a byrd head installed....but not right now.

[John Miliunas]

Do any of you have any comments about Powermatics 15" planer with the byrd cutterhead (PM15 HH). It is new and just wondering if it is a good tool for a home shop with a lot of wood to plane.

Bob, I can't speak for that particular, exact combination but, let me say this: First, the PM 15" planer has been a staple in many shops both, home and light commercial. As for the Shelix, I currently have one on my DJ-20 and highly doubt I would ever own another jointer w/o the Shelix! I happen to have a 15" planer, albeit, not a PM. It's a real nice Yorkcraft which, as soon as funds allow, will also be outfitted with the Shelix. Only way to fly, IMHO.

Yes, I do get some "scalloping" off the jointer but, I used to get that with regular knives and still do on the planer, as well. It's simply the nature of the process where cutting edges are entering the wood from above, taking a chunk of wood out and then exiting. However, like Martin said, a real quick pass with a hand plane, scraper or sandpaper takes care of that in a hurry and you're NOT working around tearout! It's wonderful!!!

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I've heard much good about the tru helical cutters thet byrd sells and not so great things about the insert cutters that are not true helicals.

I've also seen cutterheads set at a slight angle to the direction of the feed so it's always skiving.

This is a really nice one too or so I'm told:
Northfield g_cutterhead(3).jpg

[Bob Michaels]

Hey guys, I've had a PM 12" Jointer with helical cutterhead for about 18 months now. 56 cutter inserts that are 2 sided (not 4 sided). Love the way it cuts, doesn't leave a tracks. Came with a few extra inserts, which indicates there is no need to change 'em all at the same time. That's the concept of inserts. At the time (2 years ago) the helical with inserts was a new item from PM on the Jointer so I had to wait about 3 months to get it from overseas. Was worth the wait. Now they're readily available, it's old news. My 2 cents worth, hope it helps.

[glenn bradley]

This is a confusing area for me. Like Todd I have researched the dickens outta these. Two 8" jointer bake-offs found the spiral heads with the four sided carbide cutters to require more feed effort and leave ridges (that were sanded down easily). Both mags preferred different jointers out of their respective test units although none were duplicated.

Both mags preferred straight knives and sited other options as better for convenience but not cut quality. That being said, I read the opposite on SMC from actual users (who's opinions carry more weight than any mag whether they advertise or not). I'll be interested to follow this thread and add the info to my decision making engine ;-)

[Todd Solomon]

This is a confusing area for me. Like Todd I have researched the dickens outta these. Two 8" jointer bake-offs found the spiral heads with the four sided carbide cutters to require more feed effort and leave ridges (that were sanded down easily). Both mags preferred different jointers out of their respective test units although none were duplicated.

Both mags preferred straight knives and sited other options as better for convenience but not cut quality. That being said, I read the opposite on SMC from actual users (who's opinions carry more weight than any mag whether they advertise or not). I'll be interested to follow this thread and add the info to my decision making engine ;-)

Glenn and others, just so you have all of the perspectives, I have a Byrd head in my planer and will share with you my experience. I happen to agree with the magazine's conclusions. I don't think they're worth doubling the cost of a machine. I get a little less tearout on my machine, but it's just not night-and-day better than straight knives.

The cutterhead also came late, and had quality issues. I had a lot of broken inserts when my machine was delivered, and a bunch more broke over time, while not in use. They must have been over-torqued at the factory. If I were to do it over again, I would just get straight knives and upgrade with Esta Dispos-a-blade quick-change knives. Based on my experience, the price premium for the Byrd head is not worth it. Which, if I recall, is also what one of the magazines concluded.

Todd

[John Miliunas]

Glenn and others, just so you have all of the perspectives, I have a Byrd head in my planer and will share with you my experience. I happen to agree with the magazine's conclusions. I don't think they're worth doubling the cost of a machine. I get a little less tearout on my machine, but it's just not night-and-day better than straight knives.

The cutterhead also came late, and had quality issues. I had a lot of broken inserts when my machine was delivered, and a bunch more broke over time, while not in use. They must have been over-torqued at the factory. If I were to do it over again, I would just get straight knives and upgrade with Esta Dispos-a-blade quick-change knives. Based on my experience, the price premium for the Byrd head is not worth it. Which, if I recall, is also what one of the magazines concluded.

Todd

Hey Todd, mind my asking what flavor of planer you have? I certainly don't wish to start a "war" on this but, I'm sold on the Byrd heads and am saving pennies for my Yorkie planer. Thanks much!

[Todd Solomon]

Hi John,

It's an Oliver 22" industrial planer (late-model). I didn't have Oliver install their optional asian spiral cutterhead, and instead went for the Byrd. Oliver said that they had started out using Byrd, but had switched to another supplier due to delivery and quality issues. This mirrors my experience, I should have listened to them.

I'm glad that the majority of owners out there are happy, and I guess mine is okay now. But it's been a lot of headaches and a $1800 adder. Now, it's stabilized, in the sense that I haven't had any inserts that have broken while the machine is sitting. But I definitely still get tearout. My most recent tearout experience has been on figured and crotch walnut. I did not see any improvement in tearout over my straight-knived jointer, on the same lumber. Maybe it's a little better than straight knives, hard to tell. I used my #4 smoother with 50 degree frog to remove the tearout. Since I would have had to do that after a straight-knived planer any way, I haven't realized the benefit from this expensive cutterhead.

If a good friend of mine approached me and asked me if he should buy the Byrd, I'd advise against it. The Yorkcraft 20" planer is about $1,000, and the Byrd adder is another $1,000. I just don't see how it's worth doubling the cost of the machine. Maybe certain combinations of feed rate, cutterhead RPM, and the Byrd head would work better than my combination, I don't know. I just know that I haven't seen any significant benefit to the cutterhead.

I know that the online concensus is that the Byrd really improves tearout, but that has not been my experience. It would be interesting if someone, such as a magazine, did a side-by-side scientific test, comparing straight-knife performance Vs. spiral cutterhead. I wonder what they would conclude. The FWW 8" jointer review did not speak highly of them, but I don't know how thorough their tests were.

I probably have higher standards than the typical guy, but after paying as much as I did for the Byrd, I expected to see measurable results. That was not the case.

Todd