minimax 16 vs laguna 18

[Mark Angle]

I really hate to start this up again but I'm looking at both bandsaws. Has anyone used both, the mm16 and the laguna 18 with ceramic guides? Are the cermaic guides any better? How about Lagunia's Re-saw King? I keep hearing about service, which is very important to me, but how many got saws from each with no problems. Seems a lot of the posts are from people that bought $2,000 bandsaws that were shipped with problems. I thank you ahead of time for any insight. Mark

PS Does anybody know how many saws each company sells?

[Michael Ballent]

Just based on the reports of service I would not purchase anything from Laguna... Just too much money involved to be treated the way they appear to treat their customers... If you are looking at a Laguna then shift your attention to Mini-Max, if you are looking at Knapp (sold be Laguna) then look at Felder. I do not care how great is a machine is, if the company I buy something from cannot take care of my needs then they will not get my money.

For example, Grizzly had been torn up in forums like this because of the service people received, they turned that around and now they are on people's wish list. If you are dropping 2 grand on a tool it had better work right out of the box, and if it does not then the company you bought it from had better bend over backwards to correct the problem. I expect far greater service from a Rolls Royce dealership than from Hyundai... My .02

-Michael

[Jamie Buxton]

I'd be interested in sales numbers, too, but I'll bet it is a well-kept secret!

I have a Laguna LT16HD, the slightly-smaller brother of the the LT18. It is a fine saw, and I'm quite satisfied with it. All the same, the MM series looks to have some slight design advantages, and I might buy it instead -- depending on price.

My relationship with Laguna has been just fine. They've told me what I need to know, and shipped when they say they're going to ship. They haven't been too agressive with sales calls.

I bought my saw before the ceramic guides came out. My saw had the identical guide system used by SCMI and all the other Italian saws. The thrust bearing is kinda stupid, and I've built my own. (There is a picture someplace on this site with a photo of my version.) With that change, I see little need for the ceramic guides.

I have recently upgraded to the Resaw King carbide-tipped blade. It already has lasted longer than two or three steel blades. In a year or so I'll be able to tell if it lasts the eight times longer it would need to justify the purchase price.

If I were in your position, I'd look at an MM16 with a Resaw King and modified thrust bearings. However, pretty much any combination of these saws and blades and vendors will likely do you just fine.

Jamie

[Jim Becker]

I can't speak for the Laguna specifically, but I bought and own the MiniMax. The design/construction/power was superior as I compared them at the shows and the treatment I got from the MM folks was remarkably better, even before I got to know them as I do now. I'm very pleased with my purchase and the machine. I will say that John M's recent experience with Laguna ended up satisfactorily and that's encouraging since they do have a rather poor reputation on the 'net for customer service.

[William OConnell]

Wow Ive never posted on this forum.
Anyway Im a member of a woodworking club with 250 members. Last year at our show we as a group bought 13 saws { Both minimax and laguna offered free shipping to the show and show- bulk pricing. Three of us bought minimax saws and the other 10 bought lagunas. Side by side Its just obvious the Minimax is a beefier machine. So its a year later and none of the minimax owners had any problems and are very happy. A couple of the Laguna saws had some issues wich werent dire but {SERVICE AFTER SALE WAS JUST WHATS ALL OVER THE INTERNET} A few things to consider are as follows. Check the specs on the motors Lagunas are now being manufactured in Bulgaria. I dont know much about the place but I hear its the China of Europe. Minimax motors are manufactured in Italy {wich apparently is a country manufacturing fantastic bandsaws} When I contacted both vendors before ordering one it was obvious that Laguna employed salesmen with hard sell tactics wich I personally find annoying and they werent as informed about there product as much as even I was. I dont think these guys ever even used the saw they were touting to me. The reason I say these guys is they kept calling me back. (different people all on commision Im sure telling me I had to order immediately or Id miss the show truck and special price} One after another for 3 weeks they kept calling telling me it was the last day hurry you have 10 minutes to order or its more money. I hate a lying spineless corrupt salesperson and from my personal experience Laguna has a room full with phones.
Sorry for the rant but my dealings with Laguna werent pleasant ones and I never even bought one of there machines. My minimax arrived on time and I was resawing 11 1/2" stock right of the crate. The wheels were perfectly coplaner and the table {wich is very heavy and polished cast} was perfectly flat. Check out the Minimax forum and youll hear from a great deal of people who actually own the machine and are as happy as myself.

[Michael Perata]

I have owned a MM16 for about 1 year now. Except for some minor finishing issues with the table and fence (Friday crew) this is one heck of a saw.

Do a side by side visual comparison if possible and I think your choice will become evident.

[Stan Smith]

I have the MM16 and have mixed feelings about it. Based upon what I heard I was hoping that there would be no problems but I had some switch problems for awhile. The folks at Minimax did see to it that the saw finally got running reliably. Would I buy another machine from Minimax? To he honest, I'm not really sure. I'm getting a new jointer and it will be a Bridgewood because the motor is made in the U.S..I have to say that the Minimax seems to have plenty of power and cuts smoothly. I'm running a Woodslicer on it right now. A guy I know had a carbide tipped blade on his and the cut was really smooth. Unfortunately the blade was not designed for a smaller saw and it broke. I do have have to hold the on switch in for awhile before the power stays on. I don't know if this is a safety feature. Personally, I don't see a need for the interlock switches on the doors (which cause me some problems at first). There's no reason to open the doors with the saw running. I'm sort of ambivalent about it right now but am keeping an open mind for the future.

Stan

[John Miliunas]

Well, I can clearly see that I'm going to get flamed for this, but here goes. First, let me tell you right up front that, I really despise these brand wars. With very few exceptions, people have had the great "feel good" stories, as well as the horror stories to tell regarding just about every OEM out there, MM inclusive. Another thing to remember is, just like in the tabloids, the bad stories are sensationalized to the point of no return. A very wise and successful District Manager told me something years and years ago, which has really stuck with me: A person gets a good product and they'll tell one or two of their friends. That same person gets a bad one, and they'll tell every relative, friend and stranger that has an ear to listen to them!

One of the posts here talks about the Laguna units being made in Bulgaria. True enough...*Some* of them are. The "HD" units are made in Italy. No arguments; The Italian made saws are, IMHO, a better unit, though I have seen a Bulgarian made unit perform quite nicely. Some people have made comments about poor CS from Laguna. Again, even by Laguna's own admission, they have, in the past, had such issues. I can personally attest to the fact that they are indeed addressing those issues in an extremely pro-active manner. So much so, that when I had an issue with my own Laguna, I was receiving personal calls from Torben, the owner and CEO of Laguna. People talk about the MM being a beefier machine. Can't say for sure. I was able to eye one up at a recent WW Show and I really can't attest to that. It appears to be a well built machine, but I think "equal" would be a closer approximation as compared to the Laguna HD's. Additionally, the ceramic guides Laguna now uses, I think are about the best thing to happen on band saws since sliced bread! Even with the stock 1" blade, I was able to resaw an 8 or 9" piece of Oak paper thin. Literally.

Mark, I don't know how many people you will find with a fair amount of "hands on" use of both current machines. That aside, *you're* the one who will be using the machine, whichever you choose. I'll be the first to admit that I didn't have completely smooth sailing with Laguna. I will say, though, they stepped up to the plate and worked with me very intensely to be sure that I ended up with a quality product worthy of carrying the Laguna name. You're right in saying that a person shouldn't spend $2K and get a machine that you need to spend time troubleshooting problems on, regardless of the flavor. Yet, at the same time, many of those same people spend tens of thousands of dollars on a vehicle, go through a LOT of hassle in making things right on it and end up being happy, as long as the dealer/OEM works with them to make it so. They find that acceptable. Such was my experience with Laguna.

In the final analysis, you may want to spend more time just taking notes from the *satisfied* customers of either OEM, rather than dwell on past negative experiences or take opinions from folks who don't own one of each! I'm going to take a stab at this and say that you've probably got more than one philips screwdriver. If those drivers all carry the same tip size in good condition, and they all live in the same drawer, I'll venture to say that you probably grab a certain one of them over the others. Quite simplified explanation, but the basis is the same. Good luck in whichever you choose and, as long as your doing comparisons, don't forget Agazzani.

[Steven Wilson]

Is the Laguna 18 one of the ACM manufactured bandsaws (Italian) or one from Bulgaria? IIRC the 18SE is an ACM saw. In terms of quality I would rank bandsaws as follows; Centauro (Minimax MM series),
Aggazani (EuroShop), ACM (Bridgewood Pro, Felder, some Laguna), everyone else. The guide system on the Minimax bandsaws allows the lower guide assembly to be brought up to just underneath the table. This provides a lot of support, especially for resawing and somewhat eliminates some of the reported benefits of the Laguna guide system. If I wanted the Laguna guides, and they do look nice, I can plunk down $225 and install them on my Minimax MM20 - so it's a wash. The Minimax (Centauro) saws impressed me with the beefieness of the frame, cast wheels, and the guide assembly; much more so than the ACM saws (i.e. Laguna). The beef is what really makes the difference over the years. What I didn't like was the AEG electricals which have been a problem on some saws. What I really like about Minimax customer service is that they not only work well with their customers but customer feedback makes it way back to the factory/suppliers. For example, the AEG electrical switch issues are being worked and the factory is looking for a long term solution (i.e. another vendor). I'm sure that when a solution is found, owners of earlier machines will be well treated. If I didn't buy my saw from Minimax I would look at other companies with great customer service; Felder comes to mind as does Wilkie Machine (Bridgewood).