Dowelmax vs. Domino: decision time

[Matt Meiser]

matt, have you considered the tradeoff in speed? one plunge of the festool domino vs drilling three holes?

Yes, but...

In the video link above it really didn't take him long as you don't move the jig to do multiple closely spaced holes. Since I'm not running a commercial shop the fractions of a minute saved aren't a big deal. Both tools are way faster than *I* can do an M&T joint (and trim the tenon--oops shim the tenon--oops trim the tenon )

[Ron Dunn]

Even though I think Dowelmax is a great tool, it would be wrong to assume that it can do everything a Domino can do.

Someone alluded to it yesterday (sorry, can't see post on screen) with a reference to Bob Marino's web site. Here is an appropriate URL:

http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/d...rom_Domino.pdf

There is stuff in here that you can't do with a Dowelmax.

That said, I was very surprised by how complex and fiddley were the settings on the Domino. Given that I'm not likely to use the advanced/creative uses to which the Domino was applied, I don't miss the features ... just good to know where the are the differences between the tools.

[Roy Wall]

Matt -

The tool I was thinking of was BEADLOCK.....have you considered this one?

[Matt Meiser]

Yes, I have looked at the Beadlock. It tends to get less than favorable reviews in the forums and in a recent Wood magazine article. People say the tenon stock is expensive, or a pain to make, and the jig moves around making the mortices inaccurate. Then again, its about 1/8th the price of a complete Dowelmax system (if you get the 1/4" guides and a few bags of dowels), which is about 1/2 the price of a complete Domino system (with the assortment of Dominos).

[Bill Wyko]

I would have to say if you are going to do any production, the Domino is the only way to go. Time is money. Correct me if I'm wrong but you can cut the Mortise for a domino in the time you drill one hole using the DM. Using a domino on a flat surface is just clamping 1 piece of wood as backing and do the Domino. It also can be used with a indexing system that lets you cut one Mortise after another w/o having to measure from one to the other. That and a auto centering guide is a 50 dollar option if you buy it with the Domino. IMHO Money well spent.

[Brad Olson]

http://www.bobmarinosbesttools.com/d...rom_Domino.pdf

My recommendation still is make a list of what you want to do, look at the respective manuals and technical websites (for the domino) and then decide which will do the most for you. As mentioned above, there are things that the domino can do quite easily, that are more difficult with a dowel max type jig.

FWIW, don't bother with the beadlock. I thought it was going to be good, but it isn't. More or less a PITA overall.

[Alan Tolchinsky]

Yes, I have looked at the Beadlock. It tends to get less than favorable reviews in the forums and in a recent Wood magazine article. People say the tenon stock is expensive, or a pain to make, and the jig moves around making the mortices inaccurate. Then again, its about 1/8th the price of a complete Dowelmax system (if you get the 1/4" guides and a few bags of dowels), which is about 1/2 the price of a complete Domino system (with the assortment of Dominos).

Matt, Have you seen the new Beadlock system? It looks very interesting and I think they have overcome some of the originals' problems.

[Matt Meiser]

Thanks Brad. That's actually what I've been doing. I realized that 99% of the places where I've used M&T joints before are table legs to aprons, bed rails to bed legs, and a door frame or two. The Dowelmax would have worked perfectly in those places, thinking back on how I built each piece.

There are a few places I've used biscuits that the Dowelmax might have been more trouble--places where the slight lateral shift of a Domino or a biscuit would be beneficial becuase I'd never manage to get dowels on multiple pieces perfectly placed. However in these places the strength of a biscuit was really plenty and there's no reason not to continue to use biscuits for those places. The Domino could replace the biscuit jointer, but its not needed to replace it.

When I weigh the pros and cons of each, they really come up about dead even. Sure the Domino has a some advantages, but I'm not likely to use them very often, if at all. The cost difference is really hard to justify. If they were closer in cost or further from each other in basic ability, strenght, and easy of use, my decision probably would be easier. Really I can't find a single user of either system with much bad to say. About the worst complaint I've read is something about the Domino cross stop being of 0.3mm (that's really small.) Even more telling is that its really hard to find a used one of either. I know that I personally tend to just sell a tool that doesn't work the way I believe it should.

Alan, I haven't seen the new Beadlock, but I'm wary of giving it a try without it having proven itself by developing a loyal following like the other two solutions.

[Grant Morris]

How much better is the Dowelmax than say something like this Grizzly doweling jig (link below), and why? I'm not sure why the Dowelmax is so expensive either. Enlighten me please.

http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G1874-...1139185&sr=8-1

For the record, I am not affiliated with Amazon or Grizzly in any way shape or form.

[Ron Dunn]

Grant, I haven't used this specific jig, so some of my comments may not be entirely accurate.

Dowelmax is my fourth dowelling jig. The others I have/had are a Haron (thrown away, POS), Record (old but cute), and Veritas (32mm system, not self-centring). Dowelmax is definitely the best so far, and although several times as expensive as the next best (Veritas), I consider it well worth the money.

The Grizzly jig promotes its self-centring nature. It looks like it may be adjustable to other stock placement, but I can't find a manual to explore.

If it is self-centring, this is a limitation. Dowelmax (and others, in the interests of accuracy) allow you to register from the face of the joint. That means that any minor stock irregularities are hidden at the back of the work. An example is joining a panel. Using a self-centring jig you'll have small ridges anywhere two boards aren't exactly the same thickness. With Dowelmax you'll have at least one flat face, and if your stock was good you'll have a perfect panel ready for finishing straight from the glue-up.

Another suspicion, looking at that jig, is that there seems to be a large margin between the end of the jig and the first drill guide. That will limit the stock width that can be dowelled. Actually, Dowelmax doesn't shine in this respect - the minimum width for two dowel pins is around 45mm, for three pins it is around 60mm.

I can't see how this jig does face joining, such as two pieces of MDF at a cabinet corner, or a shelf to a side in something like a bookshelf.

Then there are the small things. Did you see where the Grizzly jig came with four dowel positions, but only two bushes? That means that if you want four dowel holes drilled, you'll be fiddling with bushings. If they're loose enough to move easily you will have slop in the joint. If tight, you'll spend time getting the bush out and moving it to the new position.

One reason for the extreme angular appearance of Dowelmax is that it is designed to cater for wide stock. You can set the position of a row of dowels using spacer blocks, in stock up to 50mm (is that right?) thick. Multiple rows of dowels can be quickly implemented using spacer blocks.

You'll notice that I've quoted my dimensions in metric units. That is because the entire civilised world, with the exception of USA and a couple of tin-pot dictatorships is METRIC. A jig which doesn't support metric units isn't much good to us.

Time to stop, before I overwhelm the reader

Ron.

[Joe Mioux]

Matt,

I took possesion of a Domino earlier this month. I have never owned a biscuit jointer or any doweling jigs.

The closest I have is a Kreg jig.

Like you cutting a Mortise and tennon can be done other ways.

I chose the domino because I wanted to use it as a substitute for M&T construction AND AND to be able to align boards for glue up.

You can do this with dowelmax as well, I realize that, but maybe not as quickly, efficiently or as accurately as you can with a Domino.

If you go with the Domino, I see no reason for you to keep the biscuit jointer. That in and of itself would also help ease the pain of the Domino purchase.

One other thing, you will want to buy the Festool assorted domino box with the extra cutters. so your true cost is over $900 with the Domino.

good luck with your decision

joe

[Mike Henderson]

I don't own either but have a question.

If time is not an issue (time would favor using the Domino), what are you going to do with dowels that can't be done some other way. I use cauls to keep boards flat when doing a panel glue-up, and regular mortise and tenon joints. Both are fairly simple, easy, and low cost.

But I only do furniture and not cabinets (like kitchen cabinets) so maybe there's applications I'm not thinking of. I've never encountered a situation where I wished I had a dowel jig.

Mike

[Art Mann]

Pardon me Joe, but if you haven't used a Dowelmax, you probably shouldn't compare its accuracy with the Domino. The Dowelmax is as accurate as any woodworking tool can possibly be. The precision of the hole locations approach those a machinist can achieve with metal. Accuracy is limited much more by the technique of the user and the nature of the material itself than by the jig. This tool does not work like the sloppy and inaccurate things someone above mentioned. If you had the chance to examine one and see how it actually operates you would see what I mean. The Domino may be just as accurate but I don't see how it could possibly be more so.

Based on the movies I have seen, I would have to agree that the Domino is a little quicker and easier in most cases, though I could imagine a few circumstances where the Dowelmax might be more convenient. It is certainly easier to store away and doesn't require a power cord.

[Matt Meiser]

Mike, for me, the answer is that I really hate doing M&T joinery. For mortises, I've done the mortiser and gotten sloppy mortises. I've done the router jig and gotten sloppy mortises. Then I cut my tenons and they are invariably too tight or too lose. To tight lets me trim them--then they aren't square anymore because I tipped the plane. Or made a few too many passes and made them too loose. And it takes 2-3 setups (1 for the mortise, 1 or two for the tenon) to cut them. Basically I want something faster and more fool (meaning me) proof.

After reading about both, I'm convinced both are extremely accurate and the direct comparison video I posted above seems to confirm that.

[Cary Swoveland]

The Dowelmax comes with quite a number of parts--especially if you get the optional drill and sleeves for 1/4" dowels--so you'll want to get or make a box to keep everything together. I built a box that has a place for everything. Here's a pic:

Dowelmax box.jpg

I wish I'd made it a bit bigger, to hold more dowels, shop-made spacers, jigs, etc.

Incidentally, one end of the longish piece of wood resting on the lid is for positioning the drill stop for two different depths; the other end is for holding dowels to be trimmed to a shorter length.

Cary