Steel City 36530 Table Saw Arrived

[nate maker]

This is my first post, like most folks I have recieved much info from these forums so I thought Id share my experience with Steel City. I ordered a steel city titanium cabinet saw last week and it finally arrived. I had read all the reviews and did my homework and felt this would be a great saw.Im a cabinet maker and needed to add a second cabinet saw to my shop. I currently own a unisaw so im not a novice by any means. So the first thing I noticed when the saw arrived was that the crate was damaged. I t appeared some fork lift damage had occured. I noted this on the freight companys log.The damage was a few small scratches and a slight dent in the base of the saw. I also noted that i was missing the extension table and the fence rails.I called Steel City to let them know of the missing pieces. They were very nice and told me that the the extension table had been on back order and they had just recieved them and would ship me one out that day. They also said they would check with the freight company and check on the rails. Upon closer inspection of the saw I found more problems. The ground was broken off the plug. Not that big of a deal but again its a lot of money and i want it to be right. The titanium was a completely diffrent color on one of the extension wings. I know it doesnt affect functionality but I also dont want my new saw looking like it was pieced together from a scrap heap. Also on the main portion of the table, one of the miter gauge slots was missing the titanium coating. I know this isnt a huge issue but I ordered it with this coating for a reason. Well I spoke with a rep from steel city this afternoon and he assured me that any and all problems will be addresed and corrected and that he would make sure that i am happy in the end. Im seriously considering sending the whole thing back and getting another unisaw. I have heard nothing but possitive things about SC customer service so we shall see what they do. Ill update as I find out more.

[Jim O'Dell]

I'm anxious to hear how you like this saw. But, while none of the problems you are experiencing are deal breakers, all of them added together would put me over the edge in wanting the saw replaced. I've also heard nothing but good from SC CS , let's hope they step in and make you happy. Oh and by the way. Welcome to the Creek! You will find pretty quickly that if there isn't a picture, it didn't happen. Jim.

[nate maker]

I took some pics of the saw and will post em as soon as i can

[Larry Anderson]

I received my 35640 last week and the packaging was totally trashed with the saw laying on it's side. Came close to not accepting it, but there was no overt damage so I took a chance and noted the condition on the shipping documents. Initially thought I was missing the fence rails, but got a call from the driver that he found another box after his last delivery and he dropped it off the same day. After assembly and adjustment all seems to be fine. I particularly like the fence, very smooth and can truely be moved with one finger. The blade guard is also an improvement over most I have seen. Very little dust escapes onto the table with my modest collection system. Having upgraded from a contractor saw, the 3hp motor and quickness of the blade getting up to speed is awing to me. I'm a happy camper.

[Scott Seigmund]

Nate,

I feel your pain. It's going to be hard not to have a bad taste in your mouth after this. I think with all the problems you've described, they should offer a replacement tool or simply take the saw back and give you a refund. If you want a great saw that can be making you money in an hour, you should look at the Canadian manufactured General 350/650. Probably the most underrated saw on the market. I think most everyone who buys Asian tools is looking at price pretty hard, but as a professional, your time is worth a lot and you are going to waste plenty of it sorting this out. You need a tool you can have complete confidence in, and not second guess. Right now any savings you hoped for are long gone.

I'm probably old school, but I am uncomfortable with the idea of a hand full of Taiwanese/Chinese factories producing various grades of tools with many different labels and retail prices. Green paint today and gray paint tomorrow. These factories have no connection to the customers that end up owning the products, so you are totally dependent on the importer to repair or replace bad products. Does the manufacturer care about your ownership experience? I also find it amazing that publications like Fine Woodworking will test several tools that are mainly differentiated by color and labeling. Some may point to the difference in performance and rankings as validation for one brand over another, but I am willing to bet large that if you tested the same number of tools from a single importer you would also find significant variation in performance. I would also bet that if you tested 10 General CA saws you would be hard pressed to rank them. I’ve owned three, and they are the best tools out of the crate that I have ever seen. I think the people who actually build them still care and that means a lot to me.

Scott

[nate maker]

Well I sent some pics of the saw problems to the steel city rep last night and was supposed to recieve a phone call this morning. At 3 this afternoon still hadnt heard from them so I called them and got voice mail. The rep finally called me back this evening around 6pm and told me that he never got the pics. At this point I am very displeased with SC customer service. I sent the pics again to a diffrent email adress the rep gave me, maybe this time he will recieve them. If I don't get complete satisfaction by tomorrow afternoon then they can come get the saw and Ill go with a diffrent brand. I have included links to the saw pics if anyone is intrested. After you check out the pics let me know if I am overreacting.


http://www.flickr.com/photos/18000319@N06/2217929010/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/18000319@N06/2217135581/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/18000319@N06/2217929898/

[Bruce Page]

Nate, first off, welcome to SMC.
Sorry to hear about your issues with SC. I agree with Mr.O'Dell and would send it back. It sounds like they would pretty much have to replace it anyway, otherwise you’re going to end up with something on it that just isn’t right. On the positive side, SC has worked hard to build a good reputation in the short time that they have been around, I’m confident that they will take good care of you….but don’t settle!

[Leigh Betsch]

Sorry to hear about your Steel City issues. I took a look at the pics, looks like very poor workmanship. I looks to me like Steel City is just like the rest of the importers, they are all competing to to see who can provide the lowest quality that the consumer will accept. Jazz it up with a bunch of smooth sales talk and pocket as much money as the consumer will part with. I would send it Back right now. There is no excuse for it, no plating in the miter slot, marked visual difference in the coating color, junk, junk, junk. Someone assembled and packed the saw, seen the problems and shipped it anyway. That person didn't care at all about how you would feel. Vote with your feet, send it back and look for something better. It's hard to find a domestic saw but at least you can give someone else a try.

[nate maker]

Well a quick update,
Jim from Steel City called me back this morning and said he saw the pics of the damage on the saw here on smc. I noticed over 500 hundred people have looked at this post already so I think steel city wants to get it right. He stated that that saw should have never left the factory because of its obvious flaws and he was shipping a new saw to me today. One that he said he had personally gone out and inspected. The saw is supposed to be here ealy part of next week. I asked him what he could do for the time i have lost. I dont know if I mentioned it before but I do custom cabinets for a living and I broke down my old second ts so I could set this one up and increase my productivity. Anyway he offered some free accesories which was very nice but that wont make up for 5 hours of lost wages(not including the time I spent unpackaging and uncrating eveything) that i lost just dealiing with these issues which according to him should have never made it out of the factory.I told him what i wanted instead was some very deep discounts on a future tool purchase. He said he would speak with some folks at sc and see what they could work out for me. So im eagerly awaiting the new saws arrival and am hopefull its right this time. Ill keep you updated as to the condition of the new saw and what they will do to compensate me for my time.I will say this I was happy that once they saw the pics they wanted to get this resolved as quickly as possible.

[Chuck Lenz]

I noticed over 500 hundred people have looked at this post already so I think steel city wants to get it right.

I'm sure they would want to get it right regardless if you had posted or not. When you buy stuff that needs to be shipped to you, you run the risk of things being dented, broke, and or parts missing, everyone knows that. Now if you had bought a saw locally, chances are you could of had the issues resolved and be up and running by now. As a person that has a bussiness with deadlines, it's hard to believe you never considered any of these things before you tore down your old saw. Kind of poor planing on your part. I'm glad I don't work retail anymore, and hope I never have to go back.

[Greg Peterson]

Geez Chuck, you make it sound it was Nate's fault. Seems a little unfair to be blaming him for SC shipping department and QC.

[John Thompson]

And I totally agree, Chuck. And SC will probably discount him on a future purchase regardless of how many people looked at the post. They would have made it right if nobody looked. I have 3 or their machines and they are excellent quality on all 3. CS is superb as they stand behind their machines regardless of where they are made.

No one can control what happens once you hand it to a shipper. His saw was shipped direct as they are being sold for about $600 under retail to clear inventory for newly arriving. Normally a SC is purchased local and it can and is inspected before the fact.

The defective quality issues should have never left the warehouse as stated and I am sure they are somewhat embarassed that it did. But I would be willing to bet that there won't be any more that goes out in that condition. They've got lots of pre-packaged saws in the warehouse and it would be difficult to open each one.. But again.. I bet they do it anyway after what happened.

Regards...

Sarge..

[Chuck Lenz]

Geez Chuck, you make it sound it was Nate's fault. Seems a little unfair to be blaming him for SC shipping department and QC.

Are you sure it was the shipping department at SC ? Or the shipper that forgot or misplaced his fence rails ? The titanium coating and extension board ( not that it's hard to make a extension board to get you by ) issues may be valid, but thats not what stoped him from being able to use the saw right away if he really needed it. Wasn't the fence rail missing his major gripe ? Once again, these problems are usually easier, and quickly resolved when bought from a local dealer. He took his chances and lost, thats the way it goes with shipping large items, and multiple boxes don't make the odds any better. It could of got there late by several days also, would that automatically be Steel City's fault ? I think demanding blood from a company and calling for a lynch mob when no one knows who droped the ball yet is a bit unfair to the company. Not that I'd be happy about the whole deal either, but common, lets be fair and reasonable and know all the facts first.

[Scott Seigmund]

..... it's hard to believe you never considered any of these things before you tore down your old saw. Kind of poor planing on your part. I'm glad I don't work retail anymore, and hope I never have to go back.

By your logic Nate should have expected a defective product and therefore not taken his old saw out of service until the new, bad saw was made right. Customer complaints are probably the worst part of retail, but Nate is not a bad customer, he is an injured customer, and completely justified in seeking to have what he has paid for. He is also justified in expecting some compensation for injury of lost time and production.

The new reality is that many of us can’t buy what we need from a local dealer any more. Almost all machine tools for woodworking are imported from Asia and thus endure a lot of shipping just to get to a distribution center. Even so, Nate should expect a perfect product. The saw that he got was both damaged and defective. Damage from shipping is unfortunate but not the norm, and should be covered by insurance. He ended up with a defective saw because the Steel City staff had no idea of the condition of the crated item. They can’t possibly open and inspect every product. QC at the point of sale? What the H___ is that? The fact is importers don’t control the companies that make this stuff. They are customers themselves. I think it’s hysterical that people consider the importer some sort of hero for yanking parts off other tools, sending major replacement assemblies or completely replacing seriously defective tools, and vowing support and loyalty to those businesses. All I can say is that if you can’t consistently deliver great products, you better have great customer service, or you will soon be history. I guess a great company today is one that will fix or replace all the crap they sell?

So we have voted with our dollars for ever cheaper tools until they must be produced in unsophisticated factories with poor process control. The quality of the end product is a function of processes not human inspection. If “quality” must be assured by human inspection, you are dealing with a failed system with poor processes. This is basic Edwards Deming, invented in the United States, and taught to most of the industrialized world 50 years ago, but not yet well implemented in developing Asian economies. Maybe the hobbyist can rationalize purchasing his tools from Asia based solely on price, but professionals should take a longer view, and assess the total cost to own a tool. When I see the prices used North American tools bring these days, the cost to own them was pretty low.

As for me, I’ll support companies that don’t sell crap.

[Chuck Lenz]

By your logic Nate should have expected a defective product.

No Scott, thats your interpretation of what I said. Defective products, missing parts, and poor shipping are all possibilities, not expected. They do happen no matter what or who you buy from.