Rikon - Misleading or Outright Lying?

[Barry Lloyd]

So I got my weekly sales advertisment email from Woodcraft today and was happy to see they have several bandsaws on sale/special promotions (I don't have a BS and would like to). They have the Jet 14", Powermatic 14", and the new Rikon 18" (Model 10-345). I had heard good things about Rikons but didn't know much about them. So I started searching this forum and Googling others. Found a number of concerns and problems with their "newly redesigned" upper wheel tensioning assembly. After reading several owner reviews complaining about what sounds like a design flaw, I went directly to the Rikon Power Tools web site to see if there was any info there about a recall or other acknowledgement that there was indeed an issue. As I was looking around I found this ( http://www.rikontools.com/productshe...heet_10345.pdf ) which is the product sheet for the new bandsaw. If you look at the bottom of the sheet it shows the Taunton's Tool Guide "Best Value" award emblem. I can't make out the year on the emblem. (They also have a Wood Magazine Top Tool.) So that peeked my curiosity since I new this was a pretty new saw. I went to Taunton's Fine Woodworking site. Turns out they have not evaluated this saw yet. What they gave the Best Value award to was the previous model (10-340)!!! From what I have read, the 10-340 is indeed a very good bandsaw, but did not have these new design "features".

I got pretty torqued about what appears to me to be at best, false advertising, or at worst, a deliberate attempt by a manufacturer to mislead potential customers. This seems especially egregious since there appears to be a design flaw and Rikon is attempting to pass the new model off as being just as good as the previous one.

My question is, am I over reacting? Could this be just a simple mistake? Possible, but I doubt it since this is a new product sheet for a new product. I don't think anyone would make a purchase decision solely based on endorsement by a particular woodworking magazine, but I would certainly consider it a factor in decision making.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Barry

[Scott Ricks]

I have to agree with you on this one. Having said that, in today's world advertisers/press are not too concerned about the ethical/factual aspects of their copy. Only on how much they can get to "stick"

[Brodie Brickey]

If you buy a truck that took top honors for 5 years running in Road & Track reviews, do you have a problem with that? The 2008 version isn't the same as the 2005, 2006, & 2007 versions.

I think it would be 'outright lying' to tag that on a 14" bandsaw when FWW reviewed an 18". But 18" to 18" and they don't have two 18" models?

If there wasn't a blade tensioning issue with the updated bandsaw, would you have had an issue?

I see where the marketing department is going...they've got an updated bandsaw of the old one. The old one took honors...this one is the 'new and improved' version of the old one. Yep misleading maybe, if they didn't have a problem with the 'new enhanced features they added'. But since they do...

[Brandon Shew]

If you buy a truck that took top honors for 5 years running in Road & Track reviews, do you have a problem with that? The 2008 version isn't the same as the 2005, 2006, & 2007 versions.

I think it would be 'outright lying' to tag that on a 14" bandsaw when FWW reviewed an 18". But 18" to 18" and they don't have two 18" models?

If there wasn't a blade tensioning issue with the updated bandsaw, would you have had an issue?

I see where the marketing department is going...they've got an updated bandsaw of the old one. The old one took honors...this one is the 'new and improved' version of the old one. Yep misleading maybe, if they didn't have a problem with the 'new enhanced features they added'. But since they do...

Valid points. Model year designations on autos typically indicate a different model - even if it is relatively the same as the outgoing model w/ only minor improvements just like the Rikon has a new model number. I don't see Ford or any other auto manufacturers directly linking their 2007 JD power awards to their 2008 lineup, but they certainly make reference to them in ads and I think that is what Rikon is trying to do here. If there is aproblem with their current lineup, then it will be brought out in the new reviews.

Like buying anything else - pay attention to the fine print.

[Frederick Rowe]

Barry,
I think we've become conditioned to be wary of manufacturers claims. The Rikon product literature you linked to shows both awards for 2005. I personally don't think Rikon has crossed a line, perhaps they could have mentioned it was for the earlier version of this saw.

As far as the posts you found about a flaw in the upper wheel tensioning assembly, I've got a beef with that. I saw the same posts and found that there were two persons - one who quoted the other, claiming that because the new tensioning/detension assembly pushes rather than pulls the upper wheel into/out of tension. One guy called it a "fatal flaw". C'mon, give me a break. I have this saw and can tell you I have no problem with the assembly, and can repeatably tension and detension the blade without any readjustment necessary.

I don't think I've read a negative review by an owner of this saw. On the contrary, they seem to be well regarded by owners as is their customer service. If you're really looking at the Rikon 10-345, just call their Customer Service and tell them you have some questions about the 10-345. You'll probably speak with Rod. Ask him about his experience with the guy who posted the "fatal flaw" report.

[Eddie Darby]

Buyer beware!

Good heads-up!

It will be interesting to see if this new 18" bandsaw wins any awards on it's own, in the near future.

[Mike Cutler]

Barry
I have the Rikon Model 10-340. It's a great bandsaw for the $$$.

The 10-345 has been out for almost two years. If there was that serious of an issue wth the tensioning device, there would be a lot of negative reviews on the saw on the various woodworking websites, and there just aren't.

The 10-340 has a slight issue with the tension/tracking device of it's own. I have a review of the saw here.
To the best of my knowledge though, I am the only person I know of that experienced this "issue"

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=17055

Now, I could say that the saw is bunch of garbage, and that it's a "fatal flaw", but I won't. The saw is actually a very nice bandsaw.
When I told Rikon about it they offered to send me a new tension mechanism, but by then I had resolved the issue on my own, and was happy with the saw's performance. Rikon has been very quick with any issues I had with the saw. When you call them up with a problem, a human answer's the phone.

So yes, I think you may be over-reacting a little, and I would hate to see you bias yourself against Rikon, or any manufacture for that matter, over the issue.
They have a nice product in the price range that they have targeted. They're not a MiniMax, Laguna, or an Aggazani, but they also cost a few grand less.

[Randal Stevenson]

All marketing is junk.


I have and like a tool, but on one of its webpages, it showed a magazine issue and said it received the (award). I went and got a copy of THAT issue, and while it got an excellent review and praises, it didn't get the mark it was said to have (cost verses benefit, against review).

That same tool, won another review, hands down, until they brought in another tool that fell outside of the test qualifications.

Marketers (and some other people I know, like one boss), read/hear what they want to. Then they pass it on.

[George Summers]

If you truly have a concern, take what your research has told you is the problem and go to the showroom and put the saw through it's paces, exercising the area you suspect in every way possible. If you come up with a problem, bypass the saw and try another brand.

George

[Tim Marks]

Apparently you are not as cynical as many of us, since common wisdom says that frequently "Editor's Choice" awards mysteriously go to the company that takes out a full page add that goes along with the magazine article.

I also agree with others that Rikon is not out of line claiming their saw won a previous award, otherwise their marketing department would have to force their engineering department to NEVER incrementally upgrade their products. I think they fall well within accepted moral boundaries by printing this award on their brochure.

[Brian Kent]

Frederick,

Thank you for that perspective. I had vaguely remembered that critique and had avoided considering the saw. It otherwise looked good (especially at $999) and a decent parallel to the Grizzly 513x2, which I will probably buy.

Brian

[Barry Lloyd]

All,

Thanks for all the input and various perspectives on the issue. I'm pretty new to SMC but I have already come to appreciate the diverse ideas and insight one can gain here without the opinions and comments digressing into personal attacks.

I'm glad to see that there are happy 10-345 owners out there. That is very reassuring. I'll be honest though, when I Googled "Rikon 10-345" all saw were the negatives. I guess the happy owners are too busy in their shops making sawdust with them.

I will definitely put the Rikon back on my list of potential candidates and will make the trip to the Woodcraft store here in ATL to check it out in person.

Thanks again...

Barry

[Tim Morton]

Stop the presses....someone printed an ad that was misleading

[Mike Cutler]

Stop the presses....someone printed an ad that was misleading

Ahyup,,, must a been a flatlander.,

[Mike Goetzke]

I can't make out the year on the emblem. (They also have a Wood Magazine Top Tool.) So that peeked my curiosity since I new this was a pretty new saw.
Thanks,
Barry

The date is 2005. Good to know when they released this saw.